Would the real d4s please stand up, you didn't happen to be playing a fourball game recently in unplayable conditions when you were 3 up with 3 to play by any chance were you :rofl::rofl:
New 2019 rules
- Thread starter chrisd
- Start date
rulefan
Tour Winner
It is really a recognition that that is the way that a large proportion of the nation that houses half the world's golfers, already play the game. The difference is that they currently only take one penalty stroke.
It also recognises that elsewhere, too few players actually take a provisional at all and waste time with the long walk back.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Just follow the instructions here.
http://www.usga.org/content/usga/ho...nges/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html
Determine the two reference points. Take a line between them. Determine the relief area. Bingo.
I haven't known of anyone taking the long walk back for a long time, granted I've not been around the game for a while but almost everyone I know would hit a provie or just NR.
Read McVoy's piece and he's just another dinosaur and should be put out to pasture along with the rest of those who refuse to accept change.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
I'm with the nays on the matter of the of the new OOB/Lost ball rule. Its too much of a cop out. And l am a higher handicapper who would gain.
I can recall one medal play comp (handicap not scratch) where i finished near the top of the leaderboard - about 5 shots back. Absolutely blew up on one par 4. l took 5 off the tee and it was a bad shot to boot. Took me me two more duffs to get level with where my original was lost. Under the new rule, would i now bother to try? Unlikely . In the scenario described, I'd just march off & play my 4th from the edge of the fairway, and hopefully be down in 7 - instead of playing 8 as I was, and eventually down for 12. (And no, l didn't hold anyone up ...) Could have (unjustly in my view) been in the prizes - or even have my name on the trophy.
The new rule somewhat removes the need for trying to play straight?
I can recall one medal play comp (handicap not scratch) where i finished near the top of the leaderboard - about 5 shots back. Absolutely blew up on one par 4. l took 5 off the tee and it was a bad shot to boot. Took me me two more duffs to get level with where my original was lost. Under the new rule, would i now bother to try? Unlikely . In the scenario described, I'd just march off & play my 4th from the edge of the fairway, and hopefully be down in 7 - instead of playing 8 as I was, and eventually down for 12. (And no, l didn't hold anyone up ...) Could have (unjustly in my view) been in the prizes - or even have my name on the trophy.
The new rule somewhat removes the need for trying to play straight?
Crow
Crow Person
Thanks, I'd not read the rule properly and "point where ball last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds." is the obvious answer to my situation.
rulefan
Tour Winner
It must have been unusual for you if you remember it. So not a common occurrence.
But it will encourage you take care with your provisionals.
If you play straight you won't even get a 2 stroke penalty.
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mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
I'm inclined to agree with Gordon on this.
In speaking to our course manager about the implementation of the local rule for OOB he said he is unlikely to implement it at our place. I can see this being a real issue which could defeat the objective of the change if a large number of clubs don't implement it.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
True indeed on both counts. l merely hoped my post would serve to illuminate the nature of my concerns.
My thought about it negating "playing straight" really relates to provisional shots. As a high h/c inevitably i play some bad shots. If i hit a long tee shot OOB or into bear country, i now no longer need to consider playing a measured, or cautious, provisional just in order to get a ball in play - as I've already got a guaranteed 4th shot off the fairway. Do l risk the uncertain future awaiting me & my 4th shot by playing a provo? Nah! I'll take the guaranteed future awaiting half way down the fairway.
rulefan
Tour Winner
That's what it's there for. Saved a couple of minutes as well.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Isn't that up to the members or comps committee?
The only reason that it is a local rule is so the pros can opt out. If it wasn't for that, it would be a substantive rule.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
It is no different than hitting a ball into a water hazzard realy .. the issue i have is( and i know some will disagree ) it will b abused , id say if asked over 50% of people in our place dont drop properly from water hazzard or staked trees etc . Some if not all of that 50% would favourably drop rather than drop..
Its not nice to say or hear but club golf has a cheating problem . Oob is a certainty . Retee or scratch . I see some interesting drops on this new LR
Its not nice to say or hear but club golf has a cheating problem . Oob is a certainty . Retee or scratch . I see some interesting drops on this new LR
pogle
Head Pro
That's what it's there for. Saved a couple of minutes as well.
This is my issue the new local rule. If it really takes two minutes to play a provisional ball then this is what the game needs to address, not changing the rules to try to hide the problem. My experience tells me that the occasional OOB or lost ball isn't the cause of slow play, it's the lack of will of some players to just get on with it.
But hey ho , most people will just label me a dinosaur.
rulefan
Tour Winner
The RBs have been trying to educate players about PoP for years now. If clubs and players don't help themselves, the RBs can't do any more. In this case they have effectively chosen to go with the flow. Of course they have taken the whip out with the 3 minute search time and a bit of a nudge with the 40 secs stroke time (which is of course used at county and national level).
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
I know my initial view is to allow it for non competition play only. We have a committee that decides these thing so it does not come down to just on persons point of view.
I always read the LRs when playing away because there are several optional rules that not all clubs implement eg interference on line of play by a sprinkler head close to a green.
pogle
Head Pro
I agree entirely about RB education but unfortunately the tours haven't helped matters and it is what young players see on TV that influences them. (I know the ET are doing bits and pieces but if they were serious they would be introducing the shot clock at meaningful events like the Rolex series rather than the Austrian event.) Rich Beem got it right on Thursday when he said the only thing that will make players change their behaviour is to start handing out penalties but I don't believe that is going to happen, unless you happen to be a 16 year old Chinese schoolkid, or it's some obscure pro-am.
For whatever reason I think that the golf authorities are so scared of any adverse publicity that the last thing they want is a big event being decided by a player getting a penalty for slow play.
Yes. County and National level events tend to be more assertively managed for PoP but I still note a marked reluctance among some officials to want to do any more than "have a quiet word". For some players this works, for others it has no effect whatsoever.
Going with the flow is just kicking the can down the road as far as I can see.
Colin L
Tour Winner
Judging by what I have read on American golf forums, the almost automatic playing of a provisional ball which is common here does not happen in the USA. There seems to be an (undue?) sensitivity to being got at by the game behind or by a ranger for taking up time to play it. Just an impression.l
I don't think it is being a dinosaur to have difficulty with this optional local rule. I've been playing golf now for over 60 years and stroke and distance is so ingrained that it is easy to react to a change like this as a threat to the integrity of the game. But all it is really, is a different way of allowing you to get on with the game - at a cost - when something has gone wrong, the purpose of so many of the rules. Putting a ball into the woods, followed by a provisional into the woods and even another into the woods is not getting on with the game any more than is the current possibility of failing to get out a bunker first time and being stuck hacking away without an alternative means of completing that hole. That will be fixed in 2019 even though it means the player does not have to negotiate the hazard in the same way as the lost ball/OOB option means you don't have to negotiate the distance from your previous shot to the lost/oob ball. Consistency? Knowing right there may still be a chance.
The local rule is for the ordinary punter like me, the ordinary club player who may welcome it for speeding up play, but more importantly for making the game more enjoyable. I'm beginning to get over my initial resistance and see the positive. I'll not feel any better if my drive curves its way gracefully OOB as it will still be likely to lead to losing the hole or no stableford points but knowing I can just walk on and legitimately continue play with my 4th shot on the fairway has its appeal! Certainty over the possibility of hacking your provisional into the same trouble.
To be debated and decided at club level everywhere I expect is that if the local rule is to be generally introduced, should "major" competitions be excluded? Is it appropriate for your club championship, for example? I'm undecided, but have my doubts.
I don't think it is being a dinosaur to have difficulty with this optional local rule. I've been playing golf now for over 60 years and stroke and distance is so ingrained that it is easy to react to a change like this as a threat to the integrity of the game. But all it is really, is a different way of allowing you to get on with the game - at a cost - when something has gone wrong, the purpose of so many of the rules. Putting a ball into the woods, followed by a provisional into the woods and even another into the woods is not getting on with the game any more than is the current possibility of failing to get out a bunker first time and being stuck hacking away without an alternative means of completing that hole. That will be fixed in 2019 even though it means the player does not have to negotiate the hazard in the same way as the lost ball/OOB option means you don't have to negotiate the distance from your previous shot to the lost/oob ball. Consistency? Knowing right there may still be a chance.
The local rule is for the ordinary punter like me, the ordinary club player who may welcome it for speeding up play, but more importantly for making the game more enjoyable. I'm beginning to get over my initial resistance and see the positive. I'll not feel any better if my drive curves its way gracefully OOB as it will still be likely to lead to losing the hole or no stableford points but knowing I can just walk on and legitimately continue play with my 4th shot on the fairway has its appeal! Certainty over the possibility of hacking your provisional into the same trouble.
To be debated and decided at club level everywhere I expect is that if the local rule is to be generally introduced, should "major" competitions be excluded? Is it appropriate for your club championship, for example? I'm undecided, but have my doubts.
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rulefan
Tour Winner
By that, I was suggesting that the new local rule was recognising the reluctance by many players around the world, to take a provisional. Apart from any PoP effect, awarding an appropriate penalty is resolved.
I hope the extended penalty area will help hurry things along a bit also. If it is obvious that the ball will not be found, the player can just get on with it.
pogle
Head Pro
Colin,
I agree with most of what you say. My issue is with the RBs dressing this up as helping pace of play which I don't believe it will and as I replied to ruleman, I think is just putting off the issue ( I suspect your post and my reply may have crossed).
In some ways I can see its benefit and I think it could have been much worse. One of the R&A's options in their original thinking was to drop a ball "close to where it had been lost" or words close to that meaning. Had that option been selected I would have had more concerns than the "nearest spot on the fairway not closer" that has been adopted. (I know that isn't the exact drop area but I suspect it's where most players will play from).
I would question using it for some events but not others at club level because of the confusion for the players, which is something I'm always keen on avoiding. Players tend not to listen to starter's instructions and stuff copies of local rules into their bags.
I suspect my club will adopt it.
I agree with most of what you say. My issue is with the RBs dressing this up as helping pace of play which I don't believe it will and as I replied to ruleman, I think is just putting off the issue ( I suspect your post and my reply may have crossed).
In some ways I can see its benefit and I think it could have been much worse. One of the R&A's options in their original thinking was to drop a ball "close to where it had been lost" or words close to that meaning. Had that option been selected I would have had more concerns than the "nearest spot on the fairway not closer" that has been adopted. (I know that isn't the exact drop area but I suspect it's where most players will play from).
I would question using it for some events but not others at club level because of the confusion for the players, which is something I'm always keen on avoiding. Players tend not to listen to starter's instructions and stuff copies of local rules into their bags.
I suspect my club will adopt it.
mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
It might be if we were a members club - but we aren't.
