My Study of OBFL versus NBFL

Patrick57

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I am not the most experienced or involved golf instructor/player when it comes to many of the scientific studies and developments involving equipment or the subtleties of the biological mechanics of the golf swing. I do believe that these studies are important and I should perhaps look into them more but I have tried to read the three most revered publications on this, “The Science of Golf” by Dave Williams; “The Golfing Machine” by Homer Kelley, and “Search for the Perfect Swing” by Cochran and Stobbs, from over forty years ago, and they all make very difficult and complicated reading.

So, I have a decision to make, ''What's more important for my students, my understanding of these fine details or my understanding of what they need to know?'' I found the answer to this question by directing the same question to myself. As a player and coach, I have reached a satisfying level of competence by describing and demonstrating the golf swing in a language that 99% of my students can understand. If Kelley decided that 'maintaining the line of compression' was probably the most important factor of pure ball striking then I would prefer that he found an uncomplicated way of explaining exactly what this short sentence meant.

But nothing has caught me more unprepared than the revelations of the NBFL. How could all of the greats of the last 30-40 years have been so wrong. My jaw dropped as I read the articles on this and heard comments like, ''It is now evident that what we believed from the OBFL is almost opposite of what actually happens.'' I could have accepted slightly different or even different but the use of the word opposite just riled me. I have put many hours of study into this new revelation and would like to present my findings.

There are two main points being made...

Faldo, Donald, Harmon and many more describe the old laws as...

Align the club face to the target and align the feet to where you would like the ball to start. I can understand these short descriptions but they have little to do with what has been detailed in the OBFL charts.



But nothing has confused me more than, what I consider to be, the deliberate misleading directives of the NBFL. The OBFL describes a flight path and explains the alignment of the club face to this path and explains what happens in very simple terms. E.g. ''Club face aims left of in to out path. Ball starts left and curves further left.'' Now what Faldo and co. said was different to this but definitely along similar lines.

The NBFL...



I accept that the face angle has more to do with the initial flight path than the OBFL lead us to believe but the claims of the NBFL that a ball can start wildly different to what we have until recently believed, stretches my understanding of what I am doing too far. This led me to delving a little deeper into these new laws. I decided to clarify the above diagram changing two factors. Firstly, in order to make better comparisons to the OBFL both diagrams require similar face alignments and secondly more exact and comprehensible path and face conditions should be described.



Although the OBFL assume more path dominance, the flights are very similar. I believe these parameters are standard path and club face conditions and to seek more extreme face conditions would be unrealistic. I believe these diagrams to be relatively accurate and welcome any comments on any of the nine possible outcomes.
 

Mattyboy

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Blimey! Technical stuff which has been the subject of much debate on here.

As you say in your post, as far as teaching is concerned I dont think the science is the issue. Its more the language used so that the pupil undertstands and the end result.

Just from personal experience, if I hit a cut into a pin, the old laws suggest aiming the face at the target and an outside path, from which I manage to hit a push fade with this, which suggests to me the new laws are more appropriate (whether I actually do that is another question of course!).

Science or no science, as with all things relating to this game, its what works best for you (or your pupil).
 

JustOne

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Welcome to stack and tilt...... :whistle:



We're pretty adept to understanding/arguing ball flight laws on the forum...

...at least 5 of us understand them! :whoo:




Glad the penny has dropped with you and hopefully it will benefit your students tremendously :thup:
 

RGDave

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So, I have a decision to make, ''What's more important for my students, my understanding of these fine details or my understanding of what they need to know?''

I believe if you teach anything, your understanding is paramount. From there, you can decide how to teach them and what they need to know.

There are always going to be things which are just too complicated for anyone less educated or experienced than yourself. Learn how to break down the essentials.

In regard to BFLs I don't really follow the old, I truly trust the new as the correct way. However, on the course or down the range, I must admit to thinking in a mostly non-technical way. If I want to bend a ball I'll set up with my feet where I consider I want to start the ball and feel the clubface aiming between there and the target/flag.

From there, it's down to talent (or not!)

Faldo never honestly believed his clubface was at the flag at impact surely? It was always just a method of finding a starting place for deliberately moving the ball? It has and always will be down to skill and practise...?
 

HomerJSimpson

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Substance over style is what my pro teaches. If the ball is behaving then he isn't fussed how the swing looks. I'm all understanding what the club does - indeed it's essential - but as long as the ball goes where I want it we can work on refining it bit by bit
 

Foxholer

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Faldo never honestly believed his clubface was at the flag at impact surely? It was always just a method of finding a starting place for deliberately moving the ball? It has and always will be down to skill and practise...?

I'm as certain as I can be that he did!

Of course, if he'd read and absorbed Cochran&Stobbs, he'd have had a different view - as in the NBFLs. So they are onlt really 'new' to American coaches!
 

RGDave

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I'm as certain as I can be that he did!

Of course, if he'd read and absorbed Cochran&Stobbs, he'd have had a different view - as in the NBFLs. So they are onlt really 'new' to American coaches!

OK, so if that's the case. Was he and many others assuming that by hitting a ball on a specific path it would actually counteract the angle of the face at impact. In other words, it doesn't matter if the face is aimed at the flag, if the path is 5 degrees from the inside, the ball will start 5 degrees right?

I'm not arguing with you, I'm confused how someone might think that. If a good player stands on a medium par 3 with, say, a 6 iron and aims at the flag with the clubface but aligns himself at the bunker, he/she wouldn't need to hit many to realise the flaw in the theory.

??
 

duncan mackie

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I think the real issue is contained in here -

"I accept that the face angle has more to do with the initial flight path than the OBFL lead us to believe"

I would suggest that it was the way the OBFL were illustrated that leads to this rather than the laws themselves - if you take the 'push hook' example given it's hard to visualise that the clubhead illustrated is actually aligned right of the target line at impact! Of course, some would just call this a draw...

I think you have done an excellent job of illustrating that there really aren't new laws - but that the way you consider what's happening (will happen if etc) should be done in a way that can best be understood (or communicated!).
 

Patrick57

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Blimey! Technical stuff which has been the subject of much debate on here.

As you say in your post, as far as teaching is concerned I dont think the science is the issue. Its more the language used so that the pupil undertstands and the end result.

Here! Here!

Just from personal experience, if I hit a cut into a pin, the old laws suggest aiming the face at the target and an outside path, from which I manage to hit a push fade with this, which suggests to me the new laws are more appropriate (whether I actually do that is another question of course!).

Science or no science, as with all things relating to this game, its what works best for you (or your pupil).

I am of the belief that the OBFL don't really refer to the target, its just how many people translate them. A cut would be produced by swinging from the outside with the clubface open to the path.
 
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Patrick57

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We're pretty adept to understanding/arguing ball flight laws on the forum...

...at least 5 of us understand them! :whoo:

Ha! Ha! I have still to meet one person that understands them.

Glad the penny has dropped with you and hopefully it will benefit your students tremendously :thup:

Yes, but i still refer to face angles relative to path and not target.

Is that naughty?
 

Patrick57

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In regard to BFLs I don't really follow the old, I truly trust the new as the correct way.

I have one problem with the NBFL and that is referring to the face in regard to the target. Surely its easier to feel face conditions in regard to the swing path. Telling my students to have the face +3 to the target with a +5 path suggetss that an open clubface creates a draw but in reality the face is -2 to the path.

Surely referring face conditions to path is easier to digest.
 

DaveM

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Correct me if I'm wrong! But I thought the face angle was in relation to the swing path in th NBFL? But in relation to the target in the OBFL?
 

Kellfire

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Patrick, didn't posting this sort of false information get you banned/suspended from another golf forum? I recognised your post the instant I saw the pictures. A quick look showed it's word for word!
 

JustOne

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Patrick, didn't posting this sort of false information get you banned/suspended from another golf forum?

Which part is the false part? It must have gone over my head :eek:

The issue with the ball flight laws (and swings in general) is that it's a huge case of Chinese whispers, or it certainly has been up until things like Youtube, SwingVision cameras, Protracer and Trackman have come along. If someone says you need to roll your wrists there was never a definition of how much... 5% became 50% became 100%, likewise with the face/path ratio... someone says that face and path are both responsible and then just by how much gets distorted and before you know it were lining up right and closing the face whilst wondering why we're hitting low hooks.

Understanding the ball flight laws doesn't hit the ball for you, it's just a small step in understanding the principles if not the mechanics... I can still slice it :D
 
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I'm confused by all this 'new' laws and 'old' laws. The laws of physics haven't changed just because someone has drawn a load of coloured lines on a bit of paper.
 
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