My Club says no to GPS

[Robobum]

Point is, its all about choice. If you choose not too, fine, but don't expect everyone else to have to go without.

Amen brother!!

 

[Herbie]

If I was playing you in match play and I had my GPs and you obviously didn't - what would your thoughts be?

If we were playing stroke play in the same group and I had my GPS if we were on a tee of a Par 3 would you want me to tell you how far if was to the pin or would you rather I kept schtum?

GPS is available to everyone - some people just seem to want to choose not to use it.....Pro's are beginning to rent them out now for the round so that makes them hardly any more expensive than an electric trolley....

You miss my point sammebee, the potential for you to play better than you would without gps is always there and its that potential that makes it unfair in such a circumstance.
If it was a friendly I wouldnt give a stuff, if it was a comp where gps was allowed I would just have to live with it, though I would feel better about my score than perhaps you would about yours as I wouldnt have gps to thank or blame. You get two players who can hit EXACT distances all the time, take them to a course neither have played and let one have gps, the guy with gps would have an instant advantage.

Surely after a few comps though if the GPS really was saving shots the players handicap would tumble and all the device would do is help them play to a lower handicap, not give them an unfair advantage?

But then that is in itself an admition that thegps aided the player to get a lower h'c. Also do you not see the advantage in the scenario I gave regarding two consistant strikers playing a course neither had played?

When you watch the pros who hit in a rare spot on tour and witness the debating and pacing and often club switching followed by comming up short or too long after their shot, had they had the use of gps there would be no debate, the club would be chosen and the ball would be on target, if you cannot see the advantage gained in such circumstance then you never will. All golf decisions have to be made with all in mind, any judgement of fairness or benefit has to include pro level down to novice. The difference between pro and the average golfer is that the average golfer knows less than they think, believe more than they should and have very limited ability to make fair judgemnents on cotroversial issues. Any golfer can learn with any piece of traditional kit to play great golf, no golfer can know exactly the distance to the flag from any point on their own course let alone a strange one unless they have an aid such as gps. Gps is such a useful and beneficial aid that only people with the spare cash or will to use one will benefit from. In the same way limitations as to number of clubs in the bag came about, so should a limitation of the use of gps in comps. In a comp it only has to be seen as an advantage in just one shot, for it to be unfair to those who dont have it. The fact that people who buy gps may never improve their game is irrelevant, it only needs one golfer in a circumstance benefitting and thats enough. Matches are won and lost by 1 stroke. Those who buy gps and swear by their benefits one minute, seem determined to deny that benefit when any comments come along suggesting they are an advantage in comps or similar. If they are not of any real advantage why pay up to 300 quid for something just to look at??? You cant have it both ways.

 

[Herbie]

Point is, its all about choice. If you choose not too, fine, but don't expect everyone else to have to go without.

Amen brother!!

Do you know how much this post looks like kids in a playground going naaa naaa na naaa naaa?

Does it cross your minds that in order for everyone in golf to be on a level playing field they HAVE to spend 150 to 300 quid, a cost some people cannot justify? If someone plays a round with me and uses gps, they would have a technical and beneficial advantage over me and regardless of the outcome would still be an unfair potential for the user, the only thing that would make it fair is if I had one, so whos gonna buy one for me? .

 

[DCB]

What I can see is debate about the have/have not divide. Afterall it isn't the cheapest piece of golfing equipment in the bag is it?

When I said this last week I didn't think it would come around so quickly on the forum!

 

[theeaglehunter]

If I was playing you in match play and I had my GPs and you obviously didn't - what would your thoughts be?

If we were playing stroke play in the same group and I had my GPS if we were on a tee of a Par 3 would you want me to tell you how far if was to the pin or would you rather I kept schtum?

GPS is available to everyone - some people just seem to want to choose not to use it.....Pro's are beginning to rent them out now for the round so that makes them hardly any more expensive than an electric trolley....

You miss my point sammebee, the potential for you to play better than you would without gps is always there and its that potential that makes it unfair in such a circumstance.
If it was a friendly I wouldnt give a stuff, if it was a comp where gps was allowed I would just have to live with it, though I would feel better about my score than perhaps you would about yours as I wouldnt have gps to thank or blame. You get two players who can hit EXACT distances all the time, take them to a course neither have played and let one have gps, the guy with gps would have an instant advantage.

Surely after a few comps though if the GPS really was saving shots the players handicap would tumble and all the device would do is help them play to a lower handicap, not give them an unfair advantage?

But then that is in itself an admition that thegps aided the player to get a lower h'c. Also do you not see the advantage in the scenario I gave regarding two consistant strikers playing a course neither had played?

When you watch the pros who hit in a rare spot on tour and witness the debating and pacing and often club switching followed by comming up short or too long after their shot, had they had the use of gps there would be no debate, the club would be chosen and the ball would be on target, if you cannot see the advantage gained in such circumstance then you never will. All golf decisions have to be made with all in mind, any judgement of fairness or benefit has to include pro level down to novice. The difference between pro and the average golfer is that the average golfer knows less than they think, believe more than they should and have very limited ability to make fair judgemnents on cotroversial issues. Any golfer can learn with any piece of traditional kit to play great golf, no golfer can know exactly the distance to the flag from any point on their own course let alone a strange one unless they have an aid such as gps. Gps is such a useful and beneficial aid that only people with the spare cash or will to use one will benefit from. In the same way limitations as to number of clubs in the bag came about, so should a limitation of the use of gps in comps. In a comp it only has to be seen as an advantage in just one shot, for it to be unfair to those who dont have it. The fact that people who buy gps may never improve their game is irrelevant, it only needs one golfer in a circumstance benefitting and thats enough. Matches are won and lost by 1 stroke. Those who buy gps and swear by their benefits one minute, seem determined to deny that benefit when any comments come along suggesting they are an advantage in comps or similar. If they are not of any real advantage why pay up to 300 quid for something just to look at??? You cant have it both ways.

Herb why would it matter that GPS has helped them gain a lower handicap? So do lessons and they are not banned because some people can't afford them / don't believe in them. Your original complaint, which you have reiterated at the end of your most recent quoted reply, is that they give you an advantage in competitions. If they just let you play to a lower handicap they will give you no advantage come comp day. Yes you will play better golf and get round in less strokes but you will have less shots so it will be equal! You can not possibly argue that this is not so, once the handicaps have been adjusted, without having no faith what so ever in the handicap system.

 

[SS2]

The knowledge that the pin is 157 yds away and the ability to hit a ball that distance are two entirely separate entities.

GPS is here to stay, any objections to it are fruitless.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I agree. If you do gain some sort of perceived advantage by using a GPS in a competition and shoot below your handicap you will be cut accordingly. Remember it is much quicker getting cut by several points (14.6 to 14.0 for example) than it is to get any lost shots back at 0.1 per round.

 

[Leftie]

Does it cross your minds that in order for everyone in golf to be on a level playing field they HAVE to spend 150 to 300 quid, a cost some people cannot justify? If someone plays a round with me and uses gps, they would have a technical and beneficial advantage over me and regardless of the outcome would still be an unfair potential for the user, the only thing that would make it fair is if I had one, so whos gonna buy one for me? .

In an earlier post I said that I could see where you were coming from on this subject - now I'm not so sure. You seem to totally ignore reasoned arguments and still go on about it being totally unfair if you play against someone who has a measuring device, justifying cost, etc.

If every golfer were to be on a "level playing field" then we would all have to use the same clubs, the same balls, the same tee pegs, the same electric trolly or carry using the same bag, the same pro with the same number of lessons, the same shoe with the same cleats, the list goes on and on so I won't. Completely ridiculous, and so it is a matter of choice instead for all.

The GPS units do not give an advantage unless there are no on course distance markers.

Using your fabled skill and experience, you are quite welcome to pace out every yardage from fixed reference points. I think that you could even use a calculator to triangulate off fairway distances if you wanted.

In fact, pacing out distances could be to your advantage as you could get the exact distance to the pin which GPS devices do not do (only rangefinders can do that) and you could assess the area on which you chose to land the ball.

Damn. Why did I get a SC2.5? Oh yes, I remember now. It could save me up to 20 or 30 minutes a round plus extra time savings for my partners should they wish to avail themselves of the information.

The only problem that I can now see using one of these is that all us slow old grumpy seniors will get totally pi55ed off with the younger generations taking 4 hours plus for a round.

 

[USER1999]

Having watched some of the ladies at their open, they can, and do get a yardage from any position (without gps). I saw one send her caddy 170 yards to the pin, and pace it back to her ball on the wrong fairway. That is why the round took 6+ hours. A gps would be so much quicker.

 

[RND]

The cost shouldnt be an issue of you have a gps enabled phone - I have an E71 and a playing partner the N95, both these work great with the wegolf.net software which is 45 Euros. when i bought it a few months ago it was only about £30. It works great, you just map the course on google earth if its not already done.

Re getting your club to adopt i have a similar issue, what i did was show the wegolf software on my phone to the captain - by the next committee meeting it was approved for a 12 month trial !!

Result - i love it, it cost less than any of my clubs or a box of ProV1's and it speeds up the round without a doubt. I also am happy to give yardages to others i am playing with - out of interest is this allowed in a stroke play comp - for one player to give another player a yardage grom a gps ?

 

[EchtLoon]

Viscount I agree, if the R&A had just said yes or no then clubs wouldn't have this problem.

It's the fact that my club always go on about trying to take the club forward and then the reason that "Well they are expensive and not everyone can afford them"

Again, i understand that not everyone can, i don't get paid alot and saved to buy one. If they are banning it for this reason, which they said they were, then why not ban something like electric trolleys? I can't afford one of those and im sure others can't? And you could arrgue they give a small edge over someone who carries?

I think the GPS issue is going to create some debate for a long time!

I have to say I was on your club's side here until you made that point, very very good comeback imo.