More rules?

[nulassilb]

With so many interesting threads regarding rules, it might be necessary to have a separate rules area.
Today, during a reasonably light-hearted (Capt v Vice Capt) better ball matchplay, we had two interesting incidents:

Firstly, my opponent over-hit a putt. As his ball was heading for the flag stick, my partner lunged forward to pick it up/move it. I stopped him from touching it. So - what is the penalty? What would have been the penalty had my partner moved it?

Secondly, two balls ended up touching each other in a fairway bunker. My opponent marked his ball and my partner hit his shot. My partner then said that our opponent could not rake the bunker. I over ruled, believing that he was entitled to the lie that his ball had before it was marked. Who was right? (I haven't had chance to check the answers yet....)

 

[Sneds]

With so many interesting threads regarding rules, it might be necessary to have a separate rules area.

I certainly agree with this. x

 

[RGDave]

As his ball was heading for the flag stick, my partner lunged forward to pick it up/move it. I stopped him from touching it. So - what is the penalty? What would have been the penalty had my partner moved it?

Bizarre. The only reason for picking an opponents ball up is a concession (i.m.o.) picking it up whilst moving....hmm....well, I suppose if it's gone past the flag and you want to concede it before it's stopped, that'd be ok.

As for point 2. If you have to mark and replace a ball in a bunker (because one interferes with another) raking might well be acceptable. If the ball is clearly sitting nicely on a raked area of sand, then it needs to be place back on the same lie. i.m.o.

I wouldn't accept playing my ball out of some super-sand-divot someone's just played from. Then again, I also believe there *should* be rules that allow a ball landing in a massive unraked divot or footprint to be lifted, bunker raked and replaced on a regular lie.

 

[feary]

With the bunker situation. Your partners ball could be moved out of the area you had hit. But the area could not be raked. Usually it means that the ball would be moved 6inches to the side. (No nearer the hole)

 

[DCB]

Regarding the flagstick,

If its an overhit putt, then the player incurs a penalty of either loss of hole if it's matchplay or two strokes if it's strokeplay.

In the bunker, you were correct, the lie should be recreated as nearly as possible and the ball is replaced in the lie

 

[DCB]

feary,

see rule 20-3b for this situation

 

[RGDave]

Regarding the flagstick,

If its an overhit putt, then the player incurs a penalty of either loss of hole if it's matchplay or two strokes if it's strokeplay.

In the bunker, you were correct, the lie should be recreated as nearly as possible and the ball is replaced in the lie

Good man.

1 q? If I was to stop - pickup - concede the one coming back, could my opponent "call" the penalty of loss of hole in matchplay.

(I guess so)

It doesn't happen a lot, but I definitely remember picking up a ball that has not stopped before (by an effective concession, only)

 

[DCB]

RGDave, he's talking about lifting the flagstick off the ground before the ball hits it.

 

[RGDave]

RGDave, he's talking about lifting the flagstick off the ground before the ball hits it.

Whoops, I guess the fifth stella is taking it's toll.

Oh, yes, flagstick. A big no, no i.m.o.

Personally, I never leave the flagstick anywhere where even to worst player in the world would hit it!

 

[DCB]

Hey, the fingers are working well for someone with 5 Setllas in them

 

[RGDave]

I'm surprised I can type at all t.b.h.
Something tells me I must get a lot of practice....

thankfully, my browser checks my speellling.

Engeralund 2 Republika Slovenija 1.

Not bad

 

[nulassilb]

Yes - sorry if my original post wasn't clear. My partner was trying to move the flagstick out of the way. I stopped him from touching it and the ball did hit it.

 

[clubchamp07]

The bunker should and can be raked after the first guy plays his shot, then the 2nd guy places his ball

As for someone hitting the flag if it's left behind the hole, I think the person that left the flag so close to the hole should buy everyone a beer and never do it again.

 

[nulassilb]

To be fair to him, the putt was from the front of a 25-30 yard green up hill to the back where the pin was. The putt was a little wild/positive - but we probably shouldn't have left the flag directly behind the hole.

 

[USER1999]

If you can move the flag before the ball hits it, then move it, it is the right thing to do.

 

[nulassilb]

Maybe - even the common sense thing to do. But against the rules.

 

[jammydodger]

I dont see how moving the flag to stop a ball hitting it is against the rules

Has someone found this in the rules ?

 

[nulassilb]

Checked it. Now really confused, so I'll share findings.
Decisions on Rules of Golf 2006 - 7 (so might be out of date)
Rule 17
Two of the questions in this section:

Q After a stroke is made, the person attending the flagstick removes it and places it on the ground. He then realises the ball might strike the flagstick so he picks it up. What is the ruling?
A There is no penalty.The flagstick is deemed to be attended by the person attending it until the ball comes to rest and it may be moved by the attendant to a position where the ball will not strike it.

Also:
Q A, the opponent or fellow competitor of B, removes the flagstick from the hole and places it on the ground. B putts and A, who is standing within reach of the removed flagstick, realises that B's ball might strike the removed flagstick, so he picks the flagstick up. What is the ruling?

A A loses the hole in match play or incurs a penalty of two strokes in stroke play for removing an obstruction which might influence the movemnt of the ball.

This second example is what happened to us today and I had obviously vaguely remembered reading the above. The difference between the two rulings is the act of attending the flag.(Even after reading the decision, I'm still a little confused)

 

[justhitthething]

So, by that logic, if Im playing a hole in a strokeplay event, and a fellow competitor hits his ball and its heading towards my trolly. If I move my trolly i suffer a 2 shot penalty for moving an obstruction.
seems a tad unfair.

 

[nulassilb]

That's my understanding of it.....though "understanding" may be pushing it.