Mini PCs

[GreiginFife]

Rather than start a new thread thought Id ask on here:

My mini pc has started to make a very loud whirring noise when it is booted up. Some times lasts a few minutes then stops, other times I have to turn off leave it a little while and then restart it. In both cases once it stops it rarely restarts again until the pc sleeps and is rebooted. I assume its a fan/cooling issue as the box feels pretty hot compared to how it normally is.

Any ideas whats causing and if theres a potential repair?



Secondary questions as Ive already started looking at potential replacements:

Ryzen or I5 processor (probably Ryzen 5600G or Intel I5 11500)? Ive always had Intel not AMD processors but am sure it was @GreiginFife who said the Ryzens were possibly a better option now? (Usage is not for gaming, mainly for some large data analysis, some in Excel, some in SQL and slowly progressing to doing some coding in Python. Also sometimes do some live trading which can be chart heavy (but have always assumed thats graphics card hungry not anything else), Usually runs 2 monitors, or sometimes just 1 32" at 4k). Looking at the above processors, Asus motherboard, 16Gb of DDR4 3200 Corsair ram, Samsung 500Gb 980 M.2 NVME. Comments appreciated. MTIA

Could be as simple as an update has caused an early CPU load or some additional start-up programmes have been added (self set as default start-up) which causes an early temp spike. Not much you can do about the former as the OS will always get updates that ageing components don't necessarily like. You can check start-up manager though and see what's in there and which are high demand, switch them off if not needed.

On a CPU front, Intel are starting to regain some of the ground they lost to AMD since Ryzen AM4 platform was launched. AMD have kept the "consumer" edge by making all CPUs from 2015 until now the same AM4 socket which means no new motherboard if you went from a 1st gen Ryzen (e.g 1700X) to a 4th gen (e.g 5600X) whereas in the same time span Intel have gone through 3 re-platforms meaning it's more costly to upgrade the CPU.

That's a minor issue though as Intel chips above i5 second tier (e.g the i5-12600 over the entry i5-12400) have good longevity. The remark about Intel gaining ground is very much nodding towards gaming though. Intel have always had a really strong single core performance. Where AMD havd grabbed them by the scrote is in the multi-core performance world. For heavy multi-tasking or CPU/Memory heavy tasks like you suggest Steve, Ryzen will be the best bet with the lager core/thread counts over Intel (again, Intel have responded by re-introducing "hyperthreading" after telling the world it was un-necessary in 2012

Here's the nub though, Ryzen CPUs do not come with integrated graphics, so you would need a discrete GPU to run your monitors. You would need to look at Ryzen APUs instead, these are signified by a G after the model number (i.e. 5600G) the onboard Vega iGPU kicks the Intel UHD iGPUs arse.

Either way, if you go for a shiny new CPU/APU you will need s new motherboard as it's probable your Intel processor at the moment is an old socket platform (even the 11th gen are now not current with the 12th gen on the new LGA1700 socket with 11th gen on LGA1200.

Feel free to PM if you need more info.

 

[fundy]

Many thanks Greig!!!

Will take a look at the start up programs and see if I can identify some to be removed and see if that helps!

WRT replacing, am pretty sure I will start again, cant see much value in any of the components in the existing machine so would be a fresh build I think. Not convinced I will go tiny sized again either, may try the mid size option this time. Graphics wise, its very dependent on whether I am trading as to whether I have much need, so plan to just have onboard graphics initially with a view to adding a graphics card afterwards if I need to down the line depending on my plans. The Ryzen processor I was looking at clearly had the APU that you mention (and seems to make it a better option than the Intel comparative)

Is there a worry that having not changed socket for a while that AMD will do so soon limiting future upgradeability?

Will drop you a message if/before I buy, thanks again

 

[GreiginFife]

Many thanks Greig!!!

Will take a look at the start up programs and see if I can identify some to be removed and see if that helps!

WRT replacing, am pretty sure I will start again, cant see much value in any of the components in the existing machine so would be a fresh build I think. Not convinced I will go tiny sized again either, may try the mid size option this time. Graphics wise, its very dependent on whether I am trading as to whether I have much need, so plan to just have onboard graphics initially with a view to adding a graphics card afterwards if I need to down the line depending on my plans. The Ryzen processor I was looking at clearly had the APU that you mention (and seems to make it a better option than the Intel comparative)

Is there a worry that having not changed socket for a while that AMD will do so soon limiting future upgradeability?

Will drop you a message if/before I buy, thanks again

No worries. Tech is a minefield at the minute.

I think AMD have said that the next gen Ryzens, the 7000 Zen 4, will have a new socket (AM5) but with that will come a whole megalopolous of bonkers tech. DDR5 support, PCIe 5 and 5nm lithography (meaning even lower power consumption and therefore lower temperatures).

That's expected to happen early next year with release dates being Autumn this year (usually add a few months for supply to work though).

If you were to have a need to pull the trigger closer to now then Intel Alder Lake 12th gen vs AMD Zen 3 5000 series is a more difficult choice. Neither are bad in any way.

Depending on budget though, there's a left field option that is AMD Threadripper... these sit on AMDs TR4 socket (but you will need a CPU/mobo combo if you upgrade anyway). They are more expensive but for pure productivity these things are insane. Used in many high end desktop/servers until they launched the 128 thread Rome EPYC range in 2021.

Happy to provide a sounding board when you decide on a path.

 

[fundy]

Could be as simple as an update has caused an early CPU load or some additional start-up programmes have been added (self set as default start-up) which causes an early temp spike. Not much you can do about the former as the OS will always get updates that ageing components don't necessarily like. You can check start-up manager though and see what's in there and which are high demand, switch them off if not needed.

On a CPU front, Intel are starting to regain some of the ground they lost to AMD since Ryzen AM4 platform was launched. AMD have kept the "consumer" edge by making all CPUs from 2015 until now the same AM4 socket which means no new motherboard if you went from a 1st gen Ryzen (e.g 1700X) to a 4th gen (e.g 5600X) whereas in the same time span Intel have gone through 3 re-platforms meaning it's more costly to upgrade the CPU.

That's a minor issue though as Intel chips above i5 second tier (e.g the i5-12600 over the entry i5-12400) have good longevity. The remark about Intel gaining ground is very much nodding towards gaming though. Intel have always had a really strong single core performance. Where AMD havd grabbed them by the scrote is in the multi-core performance world. For heavy multi-tasking or CPU/Memory heavy tasks like you suggest Steve, Ryzen will be the best bet with the lager core/thread counts over Intel (again, Intel have responded by re-introducing "hyperthreading" after telling the world it was un-necessary in 2012

Here's the nub though, Ryzen CPUs do not come with integrated graphics, so you would need a discrete GPU to run your monitors. You would need to look at Ryzen APUs instead, these are signified by a G after the model number (i.e. 5600G) the onboard Vega iGPU kicks the Intel UHD iGPUs arse.

Either way, if you go for a shiny new CPU/APU you will need s new motherboard as it's probable your Intel processor at the moment is an old socket platform (even the 11th gen are now not current with the 12th gen on the new LGA1700 socket with 11th gen on LGA1200.

Feel free to PM if you need more info.

OK so CPU is definitely overheating on and off (as high as 100 degrees according to HVMonitor) and the fan is making a racket failing to control it. Have cleaned the fan, removed lots of programs but problem is getting worse not better it seems.

So new CPU or time to start speccing a new machine lol (yeah i know it was always headed that way.....)

Currently at:

mATX form
CPU: Ryzen 5600G or 5700G (is the 5700 worth the upgrade?) both have onboard graphics but allow me to upgrade later if needed
Motherboard: Gigabyte A520M DS3H (Ive mainly chosen based on it having both DP and HDMI outputs which most dont seem to have)
Memory: 3200MHz (16Gb or should I upgrade to 32Gb?, is configuration important?)
Hard-drive: WD 500GB Blue SN570 NVMe M.2 SSD


Would appreciate advice on the mATX form, cooling/fans and size of PSU (whatever I use needs to be enough if I add a dedicated graphics card later?) as well as the above

Thanks again for any help

 

[GreiginFife]

OK so CPU is definitely overheating on and off (as high as 100 degrees according to HVMonitor) and the fan is making a racket failing to control it. Have cleaned the fan, removed lots of programs but problem is getting worse not better it seems.

So new CPU or time to start speccing a new machine lol (yeah i know it was always headed that way.....)

Currently at:

mATX form
CPU: Ryzen 5600G or 5700G (is the 5700 worth the upgrade?) both have onboard graphics but allow me to upgrade later if needed
Motherboard: Gigabyte A520M DS3H (Ive mainly chosen based on it having both DP and HDMI outputs which most dont seem to have)
Memory: 3200MHz (16Gb or should I upgrade to 32Gb?, is configuration important?)
Hard-drive: WD 500GB Blue SN570 NVMe M.2 SSD


Would appreciate advice on the mATX form, cooling/fans and size of PSU (whatever I use needs to be enough if I add a dedicated graphics card later?) as well as the above

Thanks again for any help

Sounds like your system has reached it's operational limit. It does sound like you are heavy thread loading (lots of possibly small but cpu/memory intensive tasks/programs or multiple browser tabs) and this has an impact, especially on older Intel chips that did not have hyperthreading.

On your idea, I think the 5700 is worth it as the two extra cores (4 extra threads) can mean better multitask performance and less reliance on memory caching. I would certainly go for as many cores/threads that I could budget for.

I would avoid A prefixed boards (A320, A520 etc), these are the entry level boards and as such come with poorer components, specifically VRMs (these regulate voltage and, therefore efficiency and temperatures) and whilst attractive in price, are not a good option IMO. I'd sooner spend a little more on a B550 board such as the MSI MAG B550 Mortar (as you want mATX). Much better VRMs much better power management.

With a 5 series Ryzen (4th Gen) I'd say DDR4 3600 should be your minimum, AMD uses something they call Infinity Fabric that uses the memory synced to the CPU, faster is better. As for capacity, 16Gb will get you by, if you are using Excel or memory hungry apps or just loads of browser windows then 32 is better. Config wise, buy as kits, don't be tempted to buy 16 and the add 16 later as it's possible that, even buying the same manufacturer & model, it won't be the same actual memory dies. For example, I have Crucial Ballistix DDR4 3600 (2 x 8Gb config) and these are both Hynix B die modules. My lads PC has the exact same memory but these are Samsung C die. This means that they don't play all that well together and when I tried all 4 in my machine with CoD Cold War, it gave me BSOD after BSOD.

The WD drives are fine, again if you can spend a little more either the WD Black or the AData drives are excellent (I have two 1Tb AData NVMe drives in my PC) but the Blue's are good.

PSU, unless you are going to get something like a RTX 3080 or above then a good Gold certified 650W will be sufficient. Stick to brands like Corsair (RM or TX series), EVGA (supernova or similar) or SeaSonic. Never cheap out on the PSU as if it goes, it's likely your whole PC goes with it.

Hope that helps

Edited: 650W not 6500W, that would be a bit excessive ?