Matchplay concession , holes up result ?

[upsidedown]

In our Seniors Scratch Winter competition today a team conceded on the 9th being 4 holes down as one of their player was injured and felt they shouldn't carry on . Our player didn't accept the concession , which he now knows was wrong of him, but the question what was the actual score in the match as per holes up.

The competition rules state "Each game shall be deemed concluded when one pair is more holes up than there are holes left to play. The result will be recorded as holes up to the leading pair at that point."

The reason for asking is that it's the semi-final stage with 3 teams playing each other home and away and if all teams are tied on points and games won it goes to holes up . Should it have been 4 up , 7 up or 13 up ?

It is conceivable that in the last match of the round robin stages a team knowing they are loosing the tie but will end up level on points and games could conceded before the opposing team has a chance to win the requisite number of holes to beat them and therefore win the semi final .

As it happens we won 3-0 and only need a draw in either of our last two ties to go through to the final so hopefully unlikely to be important .

 

[Wabinez]

In my opinion, if the match has been conceded, so have the remaining 9 holes in view of a ‘holes up’ scenario.

4 holes up already + 9 holes conceded = 13 holes up.

Once a concession has been made, it can’t be withdrawn or unaccepted. It stands.

 

[fundy]

Should be 7 up for me. If its 4 up then it would open the door to someone quitting at 1 down in the final group game if that saw them go through on "goal difference". Cant be 13 up, that score isnt possible under your rules and isnt fair on all the other teams who have no chance of achieving a similar result.

Do you have a rule for what the score is if its a walkover because a side dont turn up?

 

[upsidedown]

Should be 7 up for me. If its 4 up then it would open the door to someone quitting at 1 down in the final group game if that saw them go through on "goal difference". Cant be 13 up, that score isnt possible under your rules and isnt fair on all the other teams who have no chance of achieving a similar result.

Do you have a rule for what the score is if its a walkover because a side dont turn up?

It's not written down in the rules but would suspect it would be 3-0 games and 10-8 each game. I'm leaning towards 7 up .

 

[louise_a]

concessions of next 3 holes amounts to 7 up with 6 to play

 

[clubchamp98]

concessions of next 3 holes amounts to 7 up with 6 to play

This for me .
If the match carried on this is the max score they could win by.

 

[duncan mackie]

Whilst 13 up is probably possible (definitely was; no point in working it through as an exercise!) it seems pretty straight forward to follow their process through and arrive at 7 & 6 = 7 up

 

[Colin L]

Have I got this right? You are playing a team competition. The form of play is four-ball match play and one of the opposing team's sides conceded its match because one of the two players was injured. The question is by how many holes up did they win - a figure you want to use should there be a tie through two teams having won the same number of matches.

Your problem is that the Rules have nothing to say on this question. A match is won in one of three ways:
a. One side has won more holes than there are holes remaining to be played.
b. One side concedes the match.
c. One side is disqualified.
See Rule 3.2a(3)

A match conceded is just a match won and there is really no basis on which to calculate by how many holes. It's irrelevant and essentially meaningless. Should, for example, your opponents concede a match before it is played, would you be boasting in the bar that you had won by 18 holes? To my mind neither counting the holes already won (which would vary arbitrarily depending on how early on or how late the concession came) nor making the assumption that the holes left unplayed would all have been won would be wholly inequitable. I suggest that any conceded match should be neutral if you are counting up holes won in order to settle a tie. It's a win, but it does not contribute anything to the total of holes won.

By the way, you don't have to say in your Terms of Competition how a match is "deemed to be concluded" when the Rules already state how a match is won .

 

[upsidedown]

There are 3 teams in the semi finals so theoretically all 3 teams can end up on 4 points each with the same results against each other and same number of games won . This is when the holes won / up comes into play as the deciding factor . I'll post the relevant rule tomorrow as I'm on my phone now , cheers 👍

 

[upsidedown]

10 The zone winners shall be decided by the overall result of all matches, with two points being awarded for a win and one point for a halved match. If, on completion of all zone matches, more than one Club shall be level on points, the winners will be decided on the total number of games won. When clubs are tied on points and games, the club with the best record between the clubs involved on points, then games, and then holes will be the higher placed. If these individual results are identical then the club with higher holes up over the whole league will be the higher placed

 

[Colin L]

A potential problem occurred to me about treating conceded matches as "neutral" (i.e counting just as a win but with no "holes up" added to the total to determine ties). How would you prevent a side which was, say, 7 holes down with 8 to play just conceding the match in order to avoid the potential 8 holes up being counted? Perhaps a fixed number of holes could be credited for winning a match by concession? I just don't like the idea of second-guessing by how much a match would have been won had it not been conceded. I'll be interested to see from the rule what is done about a conceded match in which the winners were holes down at the time of the concession.

 

[jim8flog]

On an aside note - shame on the single player for not continuing with the match (assuming it was BB and not foursomes)

 

[upsidedown]

Have had another read of the rules and there is no mention of a conceded match , the closest I can see in another County comp is that if a match is abandoned due to bad weather and the players have played 9 holes that is the result but if they haven't the match is halved .

 

[upsidedown]

On an aside note - shame on the single player for not continuing with the match (assuming it was BB and not foursomes)

When our guy refused the concession they did play on and finished at 7&5 . It was the uninjured player who offered up the concession on the 9th.

 

[rulie]

Do you have enough opinions on this subject that wasn't considered in the Terms of the Competition, but maybe should have been?

 

[upsidedown]

I think what yesterday has thrown up is that there is a possible flaw in the Comps rules that could be abused and we'll be raising this at the next Comps meeting .

 

[duncan mackie]

I think what yesterday has thrown up is that there is a possible flaw in the Comps rules that could be abused and we'll be raising this at the next Comps meeting .

Unfortunately this is extremely common in related examples of such terms and conditions. Basically they create at least as a large a potential inequity as the scale of the additional accuracy they try to add in.