Manchester Terrorist Attack!

Fish said:
Excellent debates and dialog from individuals on Sky News clearly stating that anyone who is saying this isn't about religion or that religion isn't behind all the attacks we endure, is kidding themselves!

All the wordings and texts are real, it's simply that some individuals interpret them differently, some of these speakers also go on to say that again this idea that weak or vulnerable individuals are targeted, is a myth!

Yes, there is no doubt radicalisation goes on but individuals who are brought up with or around these more hostile and hatred variations of Islam towards the west or anyone that doesn't follow those jihadist ideals, volunteer and make themselves available to the terror groups who then simply use them as weapons for their own agenda.

What I don't ever quite get my head around is, we go on about being a multicultural country and we are happy to welcome people from anywhere in the world, but for me there has to be a stronger sense of integration.

Nobody should come over and set up in areas that only dominate those nationalities, religious beliefs or faiths, and then make no effort to mix with western society and only go on to complain and demonstrate against our western views and laws and more importantly, make no effort to speak our language.

Change has to start somewhere, more worrying is that there are areas in my city, and possibly others, that even I wouldn't venture out on my own too late into the night.

We have already had some situations where young women walking home from nightclubs have been attacked and beaten by young Muslim men who don't agree with the way they are dressed etc!

If these young men are like this now within our country and have probably been born here, then they are typical of the issues and problems we face and are possibly being taught this way by their parents, and if that is the case, then before these young men become fully fledged homegrown terrorists, if there parents have not been born here and still hold dual nationality in their birth country, then they need getting rid of back to where they allegedly fled from, because quite simply, we cannot have these homegrown terrorists thinking they can come and go as they please and believing there's nothing we can do before it's too late and they've blown some people up because they hold a British passport.

All British passports and citizenship for people coming to our country to set up new lives needs to be temporary, if any serious laws are broken or if we know of teachings which can or could lead to serious terrorist events, those passports are then withdrawn and they, parents, son's daughters and everyone associated to them whether born here or not, are flown immediately out back to their parents origin.

No detention centres, no red tape, it's a temporary passport and it can be withdrawn immediately.

This is no time to pander to the rights of any individuals, we make our laws, they are abided by or you run the risk of being deported back to your place of birth and any sons or daughters born here lose their rights as there citizenship is only based on their parents temporary passport/dual-nationality.

It's time to take the gloves off...
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I have read many posts now that just say we should let the current justice system deal with these outrages and accept the people that carry them out as British Citizens. I totally disagree with this and think we have to take a much tougher line on anyone in this country that perpetrate hatred of the state and support terrorism. It's no good for people to say they are British and so nothing can be done, we need to change the law and before the bleeding hearts disagree I mean anyone no matter what their faith or skin colour.

I agree totally what the attached post says and dont think there is any point in following this thread any longer as I have made my mind up and nothing is going to change it. I'm Out!
 
SocketRocket said:
I have read many posts now that just say we should let the current justice system deal with these outrages and accept the people that carry them out as British Citizens. I totally disagree with this and think we have to take a much tougher line on anyone in this country that perpetrate hatred of the state and support terrorism. It's no good for people to say they are British and so nothing can be done, we need to change the law and before the bleeding hearts disagree I mean anyone no matter what their faith or skin colour.

I agree totally what the attached post says and dont think there is any point in following this thread any longer as I have made my mind up and nothing is going to change it. I'm Out!
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Please explain how this would of worked for Stephen Gray! IT WOULDN'T he is English.

He is now locked up for his crime
 
Kellfire said:
Pauldj42 - "we have plenty of white anglo saxon scum who don't do that."

chrisd - "Not too many kill children at a pop concert though"

Right there - accepting that "white anglo saxon scum" exist but clearly making light of their crimes if they aren't killing children at a pop concert
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"Making light of their crimes" since when?

"Accepting there are white anglo saxon scum" in no way makes me a racist ..... you need to try and understand the context of posts before going slap happy on the keyboard!
 
chrisd said:
"Making light of their crimes" since when?

"Accepting there are white anglo saxon scum" in no way makes me a racist ..... you need to try and understand the context of posts before going slap happy on the keyboard!
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Saying "Not too many kill children at a pop concert though" is clearly suggesting that you put this crime about what the "white anglo saxon scum" do.
 
pauldj42 said:
Please explain how this would of worked for Stephen Gray! IT WOULDN'T he is English.

He is now locked up for his crime
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I said I'm out. Whats different about Grey, if he was suspected of being a terrorist he should be dealt with by the laws in force at the time, if he is English then he would be put in Jail. Now absolutely finally I'm OUT!!
 
SocketRocket said:
I said I'm out. Whats different about Grey, if he was suspected of being a terrorist he should be dealt with by the laws in force at the time, if he is English then he would be put in Jail. Now absolutely finally I'm OUT!!
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So basically anyone who is British is treated the same regardless of where their ancestors come from and what religion they are - so none of this sending back home business.
 
SocketRocket said:
I said I'm out. Whats different about Grey, if he was suspected of being a terrorist he should be dealt with by the laws in force at the time, if he is English then he would be put in Jail. Now absolutely finally I'm OUT!!
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Your previous last out post had you agreeing with temporary passports and how you agreed it would work, it won't work for full blown British Cristian families who have one member go rogue, were are you deporting all these British people to?
 
pauldj42 said:
Your previous last out post had you agreeing with temporary passports and how you agreed it would work, it won't work for full blown British Cristian families who have one member go rogue, were are you deporting all these British people to?
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Read Fish's post and digest it. I'm Out!!
 
Foxholer said:
Sorry, but this is a classic over-reaction to an obscene terrorist incident!

The entire basis of UK/English Law would be undermined if what you suggest was implemented!

As for 'inciting'... There are already sufficient laws to cover real offenders. The ability to (peacefully) protest/demonstrate is a fundamental right and must be protected, otherwise the terrorists will have had a victory - by turning UK into a 'police state'!

It is up to Security Services/Police to gather evidence and establish a case to prosecute via laws already in existence! They DO have some fairly draconian powers - provided they can identify the possible perpetrators! I'm certain there'll be some 'reviewing' of how this incident wasn't caught - as there DID seem to be some flags raised! If it's a 'resources' issue, then that would seem to relatively easily addressed, though can never guarantee complete safety!
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And this is the kind of attitude that makes members of the SF think twice before they take any action because later on down the line (as we are seeing now in NI) someone will make a spurious case against someone who may not have crossed the Ts and dotted the i's.
 
SocketRocket said:
Read Fish's post and digest it. I'm Out!!
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I'll type slowly so please read slowly.

Robin mentions temp passports etc (if we were starting from scratch I think it could work, we're not)

Gray was born into a Christian British Family, he converted to islam, has been convicted of terrorist offences and sentenced to 5 years.

Back to Robins post, neither him or his family are immigrants, so how do we remove his and their passports and deport them, how does Robins idea work for homegrown white anglo saxon people.

Now, are you out or are you out out?
 
There's a saying in life...
If you don't change anything, nothing will change.

Thoughts are with those still in hospital fighting for their lives.
 
bobmac said:
There's a saying in life...
If you don't change anything, nothing will change.

Thoughts are with those still in hospital fighting for their lives.
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I don't think anyone has said "don't change anything"

What people are saying is the changes that have been suggested on here are unworkable and in fact beyond radical.

Change to stop it all happening would be great - no one will deny that , just got to find a way to stop people acting the way that have done for centuries.
 
Worth a read for some on here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/uk_1.shtml. UK is a history of immigrants from everywhere, has always been so.

Manchester was absolutely horrific but knee jerk reactions and hostility to all those of a certain religion in UK who are 'different' never got us anywhere. This is a world wide problem as evidenced by 130 terrorist incidents around the world so far in May 2017 alone committed generally by angry young men coerced by bitter angry older men - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_May_2017

Needs a world wide solution but not much prospect of that in sight sadly.
 
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