Long Par 3's - How long is too long?
- Thread starter DelB
- Start date
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
louise_a
Money List Winner
Any par 3 over 150 is unreachable for me with an iron, I cant risk a wood as I am not accurate enough. So I would like at least half the par 3s to be under 150.
A1ex
Head Pro
The par 3 hole at Wimbledon Common looks great. Much rather that than a 230 par 4 which renders a course mickey mouse.
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Yup, that is an absolute nonsense!
that course has 5 par 4's well under 300 and 3 par 3's over 220 - it's just the nature of it's layout which they aren't permitted by the common conservators to change.
having those holes as par 4's would be even more nonsense, and result in another thread about ridiculous courses where the SSS is 65 against a par of 71 (as you would have it) and you need to shoot 42 points to play to handicap.
bladeplayer
Money List Winner
i think 220 should be the upper limit .. but there should be a varyience of the par 3's on all courses , shortish , mid & long ..
DelB
Journeyman Pro
In that particular instance, I was referring to the fact that the hole in question was SI 16. Sorry, should have been clearer with that.
cookelad
Tour Winner
I think someone accidentally put a 6 at the end of the stroke index there!
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
ah...
I've only played the course once but that hole played a lot easier than it's length suggests, and I didn't feel that the shorter ones (at SI 7 and 8) should have been swapped with it. The SIs on that course are set with reference to 'difficulty', but what you will frequently find is that a hole such as this will play an average about 4 against a shorter hole with challenges that plays an average of a little more ie SI done on difficulty isn't the absolute difficulty of making par (or hitting the green) but the average scores on the hole relative to par.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
Good question raised by OP but distance does not come into it really, more to do with lie of the land and difficulty.
I was one of a team that designed a 9 hole course. The plan went very well and we were left with a bit of land 300 yards long, lying downhill towards a burn and a bank of trees.
I wanted to make it a short driveable par 4, picturesque into a 'Dingly Dell' little area.
Where the green would be placed you could see half of the flag.
We were on a limited budget [we built the course for less than £150k in 1990] so major earth moving was a no no.
Big arguments with my co designer the Pro as he stipulated that you had to see the bottom of the hole on every green.
We compromised and built a 190 yard par 3. Both agreeing that it would be the worst hole on the course.
As it turned out it was a pretty decent hole with a challenging tee shot.
IMO the par 4 I wanted to build would have been an easier hole than the finished article.
Good examples of what I am trying to say are Redan at North Berwick and the 3rd hole on Gullane No2
I was one of a team that designed a 9 hole course. The plan went very well and we were left with a bit of land 300 yards long, lying downhill towards a burn and a bank of trees.
I wanted to make it a short driveable par 4, picturesque into a 'Dingly Dell' little area.
Where the green would be placed you could see half of the flag.
We were on a limited budget [we built the course for less than £150k in 1990] so major earth moving was a no no.
Big arguments with my co designer the Pro as he stipulated that you had to see the bottom of the hole on every green.
We compromised and built a 190 yard par 3. Both agreeing that it would be the worst hole on the course.
As it turned out it was a pretty decent hole with a challenging tee shot.
IMO the par 4 I wanted to build would have been an easier hole than the finished article.
Good examples of what I am trying to say are Redan at North Berwick and the 3rd hole on Gullane No2
S
Snelly
Guest
This is my opinion too. Variance in the par 3 holes on a course is what I like to see. If you have 4 par 3's and they are all 7,8 or 9 iron then it is rather dull. A mix of holes ranging from 120-220 yards is probably about right. A mixture in elevation is also welcome. The other issue is design. On a longer hole, there must be an exit plan for the shorter hitter.
In terms of the 15th at Blackmoor, I think it is a superb hole and should not be changed at all. Every course should have a long par 3 and this is a good one. Most golfers have the ability to reach it with a good shot - it just needs to be straight. It is also very fair - what you see is what you get and a good shot is rewarded, a bad one punished. Not all holes should be easy!
bobmac
Major Champion
I really dont get this.
Imagine you're playing the 18th hole thats 240yds long and you have taken 81 shots so far and your h/cap is 15... SSS is 70
If the last hole is a par 3 and you take a 4, you have scored 85. Net 70 Happy days
If the last hole is a par 4 and you take a 4, you have scored 85. Net 70 Happy days
What difference does the number on the card make?
Nothing. Zilch. Zero.
Your final score has NOTHING to do with the par of the course, the only thing that matters is the CSS.
Make every hole on the course a par 3 and you have still scored 85 net 70 Happy days.
I see the point about s/ford but if you cant make a 4 at a hole 240 yards long, do you deserve a point?
I also see the point about the SI of the hole for match play but again, nothing to do with par figure.
I see this time and time again.......
people trying to play each hole in relation to the par, it's wrong, stop it.
Play each hole the best you can whether it's a 460 yd par 5 down wind or a 240 yd par 3 straight into the teeth.
Imagine you're playing the 18th hole thats 240yds long and you have taken 81 shots so far and your h/cap is 15... SSS is 70
If the last hole is a par 3 and you take a 4, you have scored 85. Net 70 Happy days
If the last hole is a par 4 and you take a 4, you have scored 85. Net 70 Happy days
What difference does the number on the card make?
Nothing. Zilch. Zero.
Your final score has NOTHING to do with the par of the course, the only thing that matters is the CSS.
Make every hole on the course a par 3 and you have still scored 85 net 70 Happy days.
I see the point about s/ford but if you cant make a 4 at a hole 240 yards long, do you deserve a point?
I also see the point about the SI of the hole for match play but again, nothing to do with par figure.
I see this time and time again.......
people trying to play each hole in relation to the par, it's wrong, stop it.
Play each hole the best you can whether it's a 460 yd par 5 down wind or a 240 yd par 3 straight into the teeth.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
I remember the 1966 Open when Nicklaus hit a low score, 66 I think.
One of the old golfers said that he could reach all the par 5's in two and virtually drive the par 4 2nd and 12th.
Not such a great score as his par for the course related to his legnth is 66.
Totally agree with Bob, numbers are all in the head.
One of the old golfers said that he could reach all the par 5's in two and virtually drive the par 4 2nd and 12th.
Not such a great score as his par for the course related to his legnth is 66.
Totally agree with Bob, numbers are all in the head.
HawkeyeMS
Ryder Cup Winner
We have a 227yd and 217yd par 3 and 3 others in the 170-180yd range. I need 3W for the longer two, not needed a driver yet. TBH I'm quite happy with the long par 3s at our course, they are tough and particularly on the 1st, a bogey 4 is a good score. A long par 3 is a much better challenge than an easy par 4 and at RAGC at least, they serve to keep competition scores around par which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
drutz
Assistant Pro
You like a trip to mine Louise. Is a former 9 hole par 3 they have turned into an 18 hole now. Still have 10 par 3 though only about 4 of those are under 150 yds got par 4's as well as currently turning 2 of the par 4's to par 5's. They are difficult though the par 3's like the Wimbledon course most are tree lined and the rough can be quite unforgiving.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
I quite like the concept of 'easy holes'.
Stan Drews has plenty.
I hate the 'corporate' course design concept of 10 par 4's, and 4 par 5's and 3's with no easy holes.
Bear in mind that there is no such thing as an easy hole.
Stan Drews has plenty.
I hate the 'corporate' course design concept of 10 par 4's, and 4 par 5's and 3's with no easy holes.
Bear in mind that there is no such thing as an easy hole.
Last edited:
HickoryShaft
Tour Rookie
Mentioned this before but our ninth is 248 off the whites. 242 off the yellows. SI 10.
It has OOB right with a nasty slope off the green / approach that kicks it that way if you slice a driver a little. Big trees about half way down that funnel you in, plus a dip in the fairway (about 6 foot tall so you cant just bump an run.
On the left there is a ditch half way down then if you aim out left of the green for safety to avoid the OOB right there is a fairway bunker to gather you up.
Make par on this and you are a happy golfer!!
It gets discussed lots during games - should it be a par 3 or not - but overall it is seen as a stern test. In the summer a good 3 wood could get a kick on and reach - or a nice iron to lay up and chip on. Driver and you can usually reach if accurate. Right now and anything less than a driver and most have little chance of reaching. The other par 3's on the course are all sub 200 yards so comparatively easier to reach but don't always yield better scores as they are better protected with water / bunkers.
Its a great hole!
It has OOB right with a nasty slope off the green / approach that kicks it that way if you slice a driver a little. Big trees about half way down that funnel you in, plus a dip in the fairway (about 6 foot tall so you cant just bump an run.
On the left there is a ditch half way down then if you aim out left of the green for safety to avoid the OOB right there is a fairway bunker to gather you up.
Make par on this and you are a happy golfer!!
It gets discussed lots during games - should it be a par 3 or not - but overall it is seen as a stern test. In the summer a good 3 wood could get a kick on and reach - or a nice iron to lay up and chip on. Driver and you can usually reach if accurate. Right now and anything less than a driver and most have little chance of reaching. The other par 3's on the course are all sub 200 yards so comparatively easier to reach but don't always yield better scores as they are better protected with water / bunkers.
Its a great hole!
TheJezster
Tour Rookie
I play this hole every weekend! It's a bit of a bugger, but at least its half way round the course.
Hole 1 is a 228 yard par 3 with OOB on the left and a huge bush on the right which blocks your view of the right side of the green and eats many a ball. Now that with no warm up is a daunting hole!
I think 200 yards is enough as anything over my 3 rescue is a driver with me having no wood in the bag LOL
I like par 3's to be between 130-160 myself
I like par 3's to be between 130-160 myself
richart
Major Champion
Totally agree Snelly, one of my favourite par 3's. Just because it is a hard hole, doesn't mean it is not a good one. It also gives the shorter hitters, longer handicappers, the option of playing up short, use their shot (stroke index 10), and try and get down in two from in front of the green.
Another one of my favourite par 3's is the 15th a West Hill. Just a superb hole, 210 yards with a devil of a green. Played in a 36 holes foursomes competition earlier in the year, and we hit the green both times, and still walked off with two fours.
