London Tower Block Fire

i think that the services are almost catergorised (wrongly) as manual jobs. And they generally pay less than those based in academic grounds.

A scaffolder will earn less than a foreman, but will do more work.

i don't know pay schemes but I'd imagine more work is done by a teacher than a head,yet the pay won't reflect that. It's not a justification. Just how a business (and government is one) will evaluate its assets (staff).

I would imagine they would expect to be able to make a policemen/woman/officer??? From a wide variety of of people with differentiating backgrounds with education not being the most important aspect.

We are told education is vital, uni fees wrong etc. But with the right degree it does open paths to good wages. Do you need a degree to be a policeman/fireman?

unfortunately on a balance sheet, they just don't bring enough to the table for massive wages. Goodwill is worth how much?

Thats not to say lots of people in certain roles don't deserve more wages. But the role and wage is clear for those that go for a job and they have to decide if it's the career they wish to follow.

I can understand then outrage when comparing politicians wages. But if the pay was swapped. Would everyone outraged be willing to pay the extra tax it would cost to fund such a change?

massive respect to all working tirelessly through this current situation. This wasn't meant as a rant agaisnt you at all. Just reasoned logic.

just did a google. 650 politicians on 75k. Costs us £49m per annum.


There are 35k full time fireman. Raising 1,225,000,000 per year to find their wage increase would come from where? The the police and nurses. Admirable idea but totally unrealistic.
 
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Papas1982 said:
just did a google. 650 politicians on 75k. Costs us £49m per annum.


There are 35k full time fireman. Raising 1,225,000,000 per year to find their wage increase would come from where? The the police and nurses. Admirable idea but totally unrealistic.
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Rather depends on your priorities I suppose.

I seem to recall being told that we had to find more money for bankers and politicians if we wanted to attract the best people. It looks somewhat like we aren't that bothered about the Calibre of our nurses, police, firemen etc.

I know which group I'd rather trust with my life.
 
Papas1982 said:
i think that the services are almost catergorised (wrongly) as manual jobs. And they generally pay less than those based in academic grounds.

A scaffolder will earn less than a foreman, but will do more work.

i don't know pay schemes but I'd imagine more work is done by a teacher than a head,yet the pay won't reflect that. It's not a justification. Just how a business (and government is one) will evaluate its assets (staff).

I would imagine they would expect to be able to make a policemen/woman/officer??? From a wide variety of of people with differentiating backgrounds with education not being the most important aspect.

We are told education is vital, uni fees wrong etc. But with the right degree it does open paths to good wages. Do you need a degree to be a policeman/fireman?

unfortunately on a balance sheet, they just don't bring enough to the table for massive wages. Goodwill is worth how much?

Thats not to say lots of people in certain roles don't deserve more wages. But the role and wage is clear for those that go for a job and they have to decide if it's the career they wish to follow.

I can understand then outrage when comparing politicians wages. But if the pay was swapped. Would everyone outraged be willing to pay the extra tax it would cost to fund such a change?

massive respect to all working tirelessly through this current situation. This wasn't meant as a rant agaisnt you at all. Just reasoned logic.

just did a google. 650 politicians on 75k. Costs us £49m per annum.


There are 35k full time fireman. Raising 1,225,000,000 per year to find their wage increase would come from where? The the police and nurses. Admirable idea but totally unrealistic.
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People have always made these comparisons to support everyone getting more. IMO our services are fairly compensated with salary and pensions but we would all like to pay them more , along with Doctors, Nurses, Armed Service personnel and so on. MP's remuneration is now regulated by an independent body so they don't award themselves pay increases.

I guess we have to face up to the fact that we are a country in debt big time and need to sort that out, cheap money to borrow will be a thing of the past. Critisizing Austerity is the current bandwagon that has no realistic alternative solution. We currently have to borrow to pay these wages so how longer can we do this without increasing it. So we need a bigger cake to share out and that cake will need to be bigger every year.
 
bluewolf said:
Rather depends on your priorities I suppose.

I seem to recall being told that we had to find more money for bankers and politicians if we wanted to attract the best people. It looks somewhat like we aren't that bothered about the Calibre of our nurses, police, firemen etc.

I know which group I'd rather trust with my life.
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I wasn't saying that they didn't deserve more wages.simply that there is no way to cover it.

Just to cover the fire service at mp salary we would need to find more money than we have. Then the police and nurses too. Then the teachers would be next. And the armed forces.

All of a sudden we have no money or country to protect. As We'd be bankrupt.

I fully accept they do a fantastic job. But there is a salary on offer when taking the job.

It's the same when people cry scandal over footballers (but rarely actors). It's market forces and the goodwill that our servicepeile generate doesn't have a big financial figure attached to it.
 
Old Skier said:
Self defeating policy when you take into account the thousands of jobs that would be lost increasing the welfare budget by Billions.
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Why? Are there no other jobs? :eek:

Also, if you increase the wages of the public sector then you increase their spending power, therefore increasing tax revenue. Trickle up economics.....
 
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bluewolf said:
Why? Are there no other jobs? :eek:

Also, if you increase the wages of the public sector then you increase their spending power, therefore increasing tax revenue. Trickle up economics.....
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But that's not correct. If someones wage is paid from Public Taxation then any tax they pay is only returning a part of someone elses taxation. It's false economics.
 
This is a terrible tragedy, I can't even begin to imagine what the victims, and the suvivors, went through. I hope the inquiry is quick, transparent, and it brings around changes that will stop this from happening again.

I'm confused as to why there isn't more anger being directed towards the ALMO, they will control the budgets, they appointed the contractor, they would have signed off the work - they may have even specified the materials to be used. I read earlier that the refurbishment was originally tendered out at £10m, but the contractor then pulled out as they couldn't deliver, they then re-tendered and Rydons won it at £8.5m! if this is true, questions needs to be asked about how/why this was signed off.

The response from the public, in terms of donations & offers of assistance, has been great, I'm led to believe they have some warehouse space as of Monday, and will be taking donations again. Unfortunately, it also brings out the bad side of some people, with accusations of it being deliberate, and people using it as an opportunity to push political & racial agendas.

Let's hope we never see a tragedy like this again.
 
Wilson said:
This is a terrible tragedy, I can't even begin to imagine what the victims, and the suvivors, went through. I hope the inquiry is quick, transparent, and it brings around changes that will stop this from happening again.



Let's hope we never see a tragedy like this again.
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As I understand it, one of the main recommendations from the Camberwell fire inquest was, installing sprinklers in all similar tower blocks... As Grenfell was recently refurbished I can't really understand why this wasn't top of the list...
 
bluewolf said:
Why? Are there no other jobs? :eek:

Also, if you increase the wages of the public sector then you increase their spending power, therefore increasing tax revenue. Trickle up economics.....
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are all Politicians just well paid public sector workers after all they are paid from the public purse.
why are they a special case when it comes to pay rises "independent body"?
They should lead by example and take the same rises as the rest of the public sector.
They also know the salary when going for office.
 
Tarkus1212 said:
Scrap the replacement for Trident and put that money towards the people that really keep us safe and well instead of giving us protection from some imaginary invader.
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And why can't we have both?

Honestly think that this country is now beginning to see the fruits of successive governments cuts cuts cuts. The police, NHS, ambulance service and councils have been banging on about it for years. They are all saying we cannot provide an adequate service with what you are giving us. Coz a majority of us don't work in the police, NHS, ambulance service, councils etc etc etc. Obviously it's just crap coz it don't directly affect us. But does it directly affect us. If there is one thing that pricks our conscience it is the things we actually see on telly/media. In my life time, Bradford fire disaster, Hillsborough, London tower block, 911 and unfortunately ave probably missed out another dozen are tragic examples.
What happend should never ever of happened. But it did. The job done by the fire brigade was just epic. The aftermath by this government was atrocious and no wonder people are bogged off. I am certain that were this event to of happend the week before the election Theresa May and her party would now be the opposition.
A generation of cuts and cheapest quote now gets the job, is now producing dire consequences for all of us.
 
MegaSteve said:
As I understand it, one of the main recommendations from the Camberwell fire inquest was, installing sprinklers in all similar tower blocks... As Grenfell was recently refurbished I can't really understand why this wasn't top of the list...
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the price to retro fit sprinklers is massive. we have 6 tower blocks on our patch and the council simply can't afford it.
 
Tashyboy said:
And why can't we have both?

Honestly think that this country is now beginning to see the fruits of successive governments cuts cuts cuts. The police, NHS, ambulance service and councils have been banging on about it for years. They are all saying we cannot provide an adequate service with what you are giving us. Coz a majority of us don't work in the police, NHS, ambulance service, councils etc etc etc. Obviously it's just crap coz it don't directly affect us. But does it directly affect us. If there is one thing that pricks our conscience it is the things we actually see on telly/media. In my life time, Bradford fire disaster, Hillsborough, London tower block, 911 and unfortunately ave probably missed out another dozen are tragic examples.
What happend should never ever of happened. But it did. The job done by the fire brigade was just epic. The aftermath by this government was atrocious and no wonder people are bogged off. I am certain that were this event to of happend the week before the election Theresa May and her party would now be the opposition.
A generation of cuts and cheapest quote now gets the job, is now producing dire consequences for all of us.
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unfortunately the majority of the public don't know just how dire the situation is with the emergency services. we turned upto a car crash persons trapped the other day after 25 minutes. it should be less than 8. we also have paramedics based at our station. one of the guys was called to a code red heart attack in Coventry!!! thats 21 miles door to door. the bloke died. all these things are happening right under you nose and most have no idea until they're in a moment of need

one thing that is currently going on under the radar is the government are making the fire service attend marauding terrorist incidents. not for fire purposes but to patch up casualties that the terrorist have created whilst on their rampage. what training are they giving us???? a stab vest and 18 hours Internet based trauma training. personally if i was lying on the floor I'd like to see a paramedic
 
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