Local rules and water hazards

[BTatHome]

To those with water hazards of their courses ....

Do your local rules mention the hazards and describe what to do, or do they simply mention that markers exist?

The reason for my asking is that we have a few water hazards at the moment, and the card simply states that relief should be taken according to the appropriate coloured stakes should be taken.

Now the problem is that we have a one hazard that has yellow stakes all around, and the hazard is right upto front edge of the green. Unless you hit a huge hook your gonna be crossing the hazard to hit the green. I was given information yesterday that seniors are hitting the front bank and rolling back in and then dropping on the green side of the hazard. My understanding is that this is wrong, as the yellow stakes would indicate that you take the drop the other side of the hazard.

I was wondering if this is basically poor planning on behalf of our rules committee, and that it should be written out in plain speaking on the card, or do you make the assumption that everyone knows the relevant rules (they clearly don't). do other clubs write it out plain and simple on the card, or on a sheet of local rules?

Hmmm, drop zones is another issue all together for me, mandatory? Optional? Multiple zones for one hazard?

 

[fundy]

Our local rules dont mention them at all, not sure they need to as what happens is fully laid out in the rules of golf

Maybe print off the page below and pin it on the seniors board

http://www.randa.org/Playing-Golf/Q...-Situations-and-Procedures/Water-Hazards.aspx

 

[duncan mackie]

1. it sounds like you have people playing from the wrong place - that's an eduction issue.
2. the issue of whether to provide a drop zone to enable people to negotiate the hazard after having been penalised is one for the committee to decide after due consideration to the nature of the hole, the size of the hazard etc etc

not an issue for LRs at all...

also, possible course of action would be to order 1000 short guide to the rules leaflets from the R&A and issue them to all members in the next mailshot as well as posting any guidance notes you put on the board.

 

[BTatHome]

Yes certainly a senior problem currently but I did wonder we have such stupid statements on our card.

I think the drop zone issue will rumble on but it might well be the best case to stop people from wandering around the hazard to determine the place to drop, whilst it shouldn't be dangerous to do so I think the location of a DZ is contentious for those rolling back off the green, and the upkeep of the area will become more of a issue.

 

[duncan mackie]

Yes certainly a senior problem currently but I did wonder we have such stupid statements on our card.

I think the drop zone issue will rumble on but it might well be the best case to stop people from wandering around the hazard to determine the place to drop, whilst it shouldn't be dangerous to do so I think the location of a DZ is contentious for those rolling back off the green, and the upkeep of the area will become more of a issue.

the drop zone should apply to all balls that enter the hazard from anywhere

there's absolutely no requirement for anyone to wander round - the point the ball last crossed the hazard will have been seen from the tee and keeping that point in line with the flag (as required) will best be established from the correct side to drop anyway!

 

[BTatHome]

the drop zone should apply to all balls that enter the hazard from anywhere

does it have to be though? I thought the local rule could leave open the use of the drop zone, so that if desired the player could decide to drop according to rule 26-1.

.... keeping that point in line with the flag (as required) will best be established from the correct side to drop anyway!

maybe I'm reading more into that statement than you meant but isn't it always the 'other' side of the hazard. So if your ball enters closer to the tee, then the ball is dropped this side of the hazard, so you still have to clear the hazard. If your ball hits the green and spins back into the hazard, then your still dropping this side of the hazard and still have to clear the hazard .... in fact both scenarios could mean the ball dropping to the same place.

 

[duncan mackie]

does it have to be though? I thought the local rule could leave open the use of the drop zone, so that if desired the player could decide to drop according to rule 26-1.


maybe I'm reading more into that statement than you meant but isn't it always the 'other' side of the hazard. So if your ball enters closer to the tee, then the ball is dropped this side of the hazard, so you still have to clear the hazard. If your ball hits the green and spins back into the hazard, then your still dropping this side of the hazard and still have to clear the hazard .... in fact both scenarios could mean the ball dropping to the same place.

on the first point I clearly read more into your statement about a drop zone being contentious for those rolling back into the water - I thought this suggested that it was only for those! Yes, the DZ should be an additional option.

your turn we are in complete agreement.

unless the water is a substantial carry in it's own right, or there is no suitable dropping area close to it's margin such that the required carry for any shot is substantial, there really isn't much argument for a DZ - island greens excepted

 

[rulefan]

As the book says

Establishing special areas on which balls may or must be dropped when it is not feasible or practicable to proceed exactly in conformity with Rule 26 (rest of list edited out)

It certainly seems in this case that there is no problem in taking relief correctly.

In addition, poorly thought out dropping zones often remove the requirement that the player should still have to negotiate the water.
If players are molly coddled with DZs they will never learn the rule and my have problems playing elsewhere (even in friendly matches if they don't play in formal tournaments).
As said above, there should be no need to mention water hazards and their relief in the Local Rules unless there are unusual circumstances.

 

[Colin L]

maybe I'm reading more into that statement than you meant but isn't it always the 'other' side of the hazard. So if your ball enters closer to the tee, then the ball is dropped this side of the hazard, so you still have to clear the hazard. If your ball hits the green and spins back into the hazard, then your still dropping this side of the hazard and still have to clear the hazard .... in fact both scenarios could mean the ball dropping to the same place.

That's correct. I think what Duncan means is that if your approach shot hits the bank and rolls back into the hazard, you are watching it happen from the side you will be dropping on and will have no need to walk round to the greenside of the hazard and back again to play.

Whether you need a DZ or not would have to be decided on the ground but it shouldn't be done just to accommodate the gentlemen of my vintage who prefer to play illegally from the green side of the hazard.

If you have a dropping zone, the option of playing from it would apply, as Duncan says, to any ball that lands in the hazard.

I don't see any need for a local rule about water hazards. It's all in the rules and I hold to the principle of not putting anything in a local rule that is already covered in the rules.

By autumn, my club will have a water hazard for the first time ever and I don't plan putting anything in the local rules. Since it is a new feature on the course, however, I will put up a temporary notice briefly reminding everyone of what it is and what to do. Will I need to give my fellow seniors a special tutorial?

 

[BTatHome]

I'm inline with thinking a special notice is required and nothing more, but that fact that one member said that he would drop the other side of the hazard as to do it properly would mean he was disadvantaged, as everyone else does it that way, just makes me shake my head I'm disbelief.