Let's discuss: Staying centered.......................

[bobmac]

It's helping mine!
Haven't improved over the last 10 or so years so needed fresh impetus.
Heard golf commentators talking about S&T & thought I'd have a look. I found this forum, read some posts & thought I'd give it a go...............nothing to lose really.
My irons & fairway woods are going as well as they ever have, it's just the driver I'm having issues with at the moment. Only been using S&T for a few weeks, but I have to admit, I've not taken it to the course yet, only the range.
Can't wait,

Slime.

P.S. You're never too old to learn!

My problem with S&T is the driver.
If you shift so much weight onto your left side, the angle of attack gets very steep.
To counter that, the swing path has to be shallower by swinging in to out and tilting the hips into impact....not easy for the average bear.
The resulting reverse C/K can't do the lower back any good either.

 

[Monty_Brown]

My problem with S&T is the driver.

mine too

 

[Snelly]

Practicing what though? Swinging with no thought about what you are doing?

Surely you need some idea of how the swing works, or what is happening in your swing to give practice some point.

I'm not being pedantic or critical of your appraoch Snelly. I would like to have a more instinctive approach to the game, but I admit I don't. Genuinely interested to hear how one goes about not thinking about the swing mechanics but still learns to hit it better. Are you advocating reacting purely to the shot and adjusting your swing accordingly?

I suppose that is what I am saying yes. The only caveat being the assumption that your fundamentals like grip, stance and tempo are relatively okay. As a 9 handicapper, I am certain that yours are.

I am advocating that if you are on the practice ground and you hit a good 7 iron, try and repeat the swing. Do the same thing. Aim for the same result. Hit 20 good ones and then when you next play, try and do the same thing again. You know you can, you have proved it. Just remember those good ones, walk up to the ball, take a stance, focus on watching the club hit the ball and hit another good 7 iron.

If you can hit a good shot and let's be honest you must be able to as a single figure golfer, then work on hitting them more often. I haven't seen you play so I can't specifically advise on what you should focus on to achieve this. However, for most golfers, making a swing at the right tempo, just like those good ones on the practice ground, is probably a good start. Tempo.

I know it might seem like over-simplification on my part but I find this is what works for me. If the tempo of my swing is right, I usually play well. If I try and belt it, I can hit a horror slice or a snap hook. If I try and swing to easily, I know I am going to hit the ball straight left.

All that said, as Mashie eruditely posted recently, there are golfers (historically and today) who prefer the instinctive approach and those that like a mechanical view. I am the former and find the latter to be utterly baffling and it would mess up my game if I tried to apply a physics equation to getting the club square at impact.

You may be the opposite. It may work for you. For me though, a smooth even tempo is key with a mindset that is totally empty of clutter i.e. swing thoughts!

 

[Monty_Brown]

Cheers Snelly. A pretty good job of describing it.

Now on amazon..... Snelly: "Play golf my way"

Chapter one: just hit the bloody thing. Well.
Chapter two: do it again, perhaps with a different club.
Chapters three-twenty: etiquette and attire.

:thup:

 

[bobmac]

Cheers Snelly. A pretty good job of describing it.

Now on amazon..... Snelly: "Play golf my way"

Chapter one: just hit the bloody thing. Well.
Chapter two: do it again, perhaps with a different club.
Chapters three-twenty: etiquette and attire.

:thup:

Chapter 24
Learn how to sink a 40 footer, downhill left to right on the last to win the money
I was taking bets on a 3 putt

 

[Snelly]

Cheers Snelly. A pretty good job of describing it.

Now on amazon..... Snelly: "Play golf my way"

Chapter one: just hit the bloody thing. Well.
Chapter two: do it again, perhaps with a different club.
Chapters three-twenty: etiquette and attire.

:thup:

Very good!!! :rofl:

Having re-read what I wrote it is probably no use whatsoever!

I am the worst teacher at golf. Just ask my son. He is 8 and we were at the driving range yesterday. When I hit a couple of shots to show him what to do, my lesson consisted of saying "just do it like this"! Not very useful! Mind you, it is working for him I think!


Love the book idea, other chapters to include:

24. 4 wedges - the sign of a madman
25. Get on with it
26. Why modern courses are rubbish
27. Carry your clubs fatty
28. GPS - Generally Pointless Systems
29. Custom fit and other excuses for delusional hackers
30. It is not your clubs, it's you....

Appendix 1 - Best golf clubs for roast beef and Yorkshire pudding
Appendix 2 - what claret with lunch?
Appendix 3 - notes on speech making

 

[SocketRocket]

I don't understand the original question. What does stay centered mean?

And I don't understand most of the responses either. "Pivot around a flexed leg". Eh? All manner of issues being caused by having a 50/50 weight distribution? Really?

Loads of you really baffle me with your ideas on golf sometimes. New laws of physics for balls, smash rates, pivots, tilts, stacks, pronating etc etc. It is all genuinely beyond my comprehension and bears no relation to the game I have played (quite well at times) over the past 30 years.

I love your enthusiasm but really, in all honesty, I have no idea why you devote so much thinking time to it as I will tell you now for a fact, it will make sod all difference.

Procrastinating on an internet forum about the technical intricacies of the golf swing won't help your game. Lots of practice is the only way you will get better. There are no short cuts.

Free your minds from this technical approach! Remember when Sam Snead was asked what he thought of diuring the golf swing he replied "Nothing. It would be impossible to hit a good shot if I didn't empty my mind before settling over the ball."

Wise words.

If this is what lights your bonfire then great for you. Some of us have a different outlook and as this is a 'Golf Forum' a place to discuss golf, then its not surprising that this is what people come here and do.

Re: Sam Snead. I would think that Sam had put a lot of time and study to get himself to a level of play where his swing became automatic. Most of the world greats spend a lot of money on swing gurus.

 

[Dave B]

Staying centred as far as I'm concerned means keeping your head still while maintaining a balanced equilibrium throughout the swing as energy is transferred from one side to the other.

 

[kid2]

Just in from work and had to get a read of the replies to this post....

Snelly:
Im not trying to start a scrap here Pal.....But..................
If your of the opinion that players should get out there and just practice to get better.....Would you not be of the same opinion that practicing the wrong thing is just going to take you longer to get out of the habit....

Take for instance Mr. Joe average.....
He takes up the game very keen on improving...New clubs and the lot....But he is so frustrated that he hits every shot with a wild slice.....He is playing his golf at a course that has heaps of trees down both side of alot of the holes....

Ok this lad has no technical thoughts whatsoever after just taking up the game.....

What would your instruction be to this lad?

 

[Slime]

Take for instance Mr. Joe average.....
He takes up the game very keen on improving...New clubs and the lot....But he is so frustrated that he hits every shot with a wild slice.....He is playing his golf at a course that has heaps of trees down both side of alot of the holes....

Ok this lad has no technical thoughts whatsoever after just taking up the game.....

What would your instruction be to this lad?

Hey...............leave me outta this kid2.

 

[Scouser]

Take for instance Mr. Joe average.....
He takes up the game very keen on improving...New clubs and the lot....But he is so frustrated that he hits every shot with a wild slice.....He is playing his golf at a course that has heaps of trees down both side of alot of the holes....

Ok this lad has no technical thoughts whatsoever after just taking up the game.....

What would your instruction be to this lad?

I was told to give up the game

 

[Snelly]

If this is what lights your bonfire then great for you. Some of us have a different outlook and as this is a 'Golf Forum' a place to discuss golf, then its not surprising that this is what people come here and do.

Re: Sam Snead. I would think that Sam had put a lot of time and study to get himself to a level of play where his swing became automatic. Most of the world greats spend a lot of money on swing gurus.

I am talking about golf.

And yes I am sure any top golfer put the time in which is precisely what I am suggesting you do if you want to improve.

 

[SocketRocket]

I am talking about golf.

And yes I am sure any top golfer put the time in which is precisely what I am suggesting you do if you want to improve.

You are confusing me here. I thought you suggested that people should not study or come on a Golf Forum and talk about the golf swing. You seemed to suggest that just hitting golf balls was the way forward.

I am suggesting thats not enough for the vast majority. Most golfers never have lessons and practise to ingrain a poor golf swing. This is probably why the average handicap is somthing like 22.

 

[JustOne]

You are confusing me here. I thought you suggested that people should not study or come on a Golf Forum and talk about the golf swing. You seemed to suggest that just hitting golf balls was the way forward.

I am suggesting thats not enough for the vast majority. Most golfers never have lessons and practise to ingrain a poor golf swing. This is probably why the average handicap is somthing like 22.

I think Snelly is suggesting that lessons are a waste of time ... after all nothing beats standing on the range until your hands bleed while you try to figure it out on your own.... LMAO!

 

[JustOne]

My problem with S&T is the driver.
If you shift so much weight onto your left side, the angle of attack gets very steep.
To counter that, the swing path has to be shallower by swinging in to out and tilting the hips into impact....not easy for the average bear.
The resulting reverse C/K can't do the lower back any good either.

Are you a chiropractor or is that speculation Bob??... I ask because registered chiropractors have said it puts the least stress on the lower back than any other swing and I thought you may have some exclusive breakthrough discovery?

It's funny that you'd pick S&T driver as the problem seeing that people ALREADY can barely hit their driver properly, we are a nation of slicers, hookers and thinners. Out of all the people who ever had lessons how many are satisfied with their driver? Is that S&T's fault or the method they've been taught for the past 20 years?

S&T driver isn't that hard. Undoing peoples bad habits is the hard part. People who start S&T and want to hit push-draws have to take it to an extreme 'impact fix' position in order to get themselves out of their bad habits, it's actually very easy for hitting push-fades with S&T.

Anyway that said.... the thread was about staying centered not S&T... so....


as you've started advising people to stay more centered perhaps you can explain where they will get their power from now they are not using a big weightshift to the right......?

 

[bobmac]

I ask because registered chiropractors have said it puts the least stress on the lower back than any other swing

I wasn't talking about the swing, I was talking about the finishing position....the reverse c/k versus the straight spine.

It's funny that you'd pick S&T driver as the problem seeing that people ALREADY can barely hit their driver properly,

I was only replying to Slimes problems he's having.

we are a nation of slicers, hookers and thinners.

or as I like to call them...self taught.

Undoing peoples bad habits is the hard part

Tell me something new. People who have taught themselves for years then want me to change their out to in swings to in to out is very difficult, which is why I have the head cover drill as one of my fixes.

as you've started advising people to stay more centered perhaps you can explain where they will get their power from now they are not using a big weightshift to the right......?

I have never taught anyone to use a big weight shift to their right however, I have been teaching people to stay centred for the last 30 years...as per my Jack Nicklaus reference in another thread.

A question for you now.
What would you say to a mid teens h/cap who swings out to in and wants to learn S&T?

 

[JustOne]

A question for you now.
What would you say to a mid teens h/cap who swings out to in and wants to learn S&T?

Firstly, what's the catch Bob? Does he only have a right leg? or a fused spine in 15 places?

 

[bobmac]

Firstly, what's the catch Bob? Does he only have a right leg? or a fused spine in 15 places?

No catch, just an out to in swing.

 

[JustOne]

If there's no catch Bob then the first thing I'd say to someone who wants to learn S&T is "BUY THE BOOK"

I normally ask someone if when they line up square can they hit the ball to the right, and then explain why it's important and/or things they can work on if they want to try.

 

[Dave B]

I think most people find golf hard enough to work out without S & T. IMO it only helps to confuse many golfers who are still trying to get to grips with the fundamental basics such as grip, set up and a basic swing principles.

There's an old saying, get the basics right, build a good foundation and everthing else will fall into place.