Leadbetter's A swing

[Parmo]

Well the return to golf has/is tough, I broke my shoulder and some serious tissue damage which ended up with surgery and a plated humerus in my left shoulder, been a right handed golfer its leading to constant pain on the swing after a few balls and a couple of days recovery... Tonight whilst the wife was having a lesson I thought I would Dave's A swing a go after struggling with my shoulder.. wow, less pressure on my shoulder and some good shots and best of all little to zero pain in the swing. The bonus is our club is a Leadbetter academy so Santa could be bringing lessons with one of the Leadbetter coaches.

Just thought I would share the good news

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Well the return to golf has/is tough, I broke my shoulder and some serious tissue damage which ended up with surgery and a plated humerus in my left shoulder, been a right handed golfer its leading to constant pain on the swing after a few balls and a couple of days recovery... Tonight whilst the wife was having a lesson I thought I would Dave's A swing a go after struggling with my shoulder.. wow, less pressure on my shoulder and some good shots and best of all little to zero pain in the swing. The bonus is our club is a Leadbetter academy so Santa could be bringing lessons with one of the Leadbetter coaches.

Just thought I would share the good news

Congrats on the good news. We all know one swing isn't a fit all solution an Leadbetter definitely has a proven track record. I've seen some of the stuff on it and it seems an interesting method. IF it can get you playing better golf with less pain that has to be a massive win win surely

 

[Jacko_G]

A - swing?

Is that not what derailed Lydia?

 

[Norrin Radd]

hope it works for you , and that the injury holds up.

 

[Wolf]

A - swing?

Is that not what derailed Lydia?

No that's a common misconception she actually had a really good win ratio when working with Leadbetter. He has since gone on to say the change of coach and fall out wasn't to do with his method but was influenced by her father thinking she needed a new coach to win even more, and that he and Lydia are both accepting of this now. She is in more of a mess now as the newer method is so far removed from what she was good at.

As for the A swing itself I like some of the things it creates especially how it explains the shoulder turn motion and setting of the club. I think that alone is probably what's helping the OP as if I'm right in assuming the plate he has will be at the humeral head which attaches to pec & teres major as well as to the lats, all of which control the adduction and rotation of the humerus, this movement alone can causing the pain and aching in shoulders through golf.

In my experience working with shoulder injuries the A swing or something with a similar tilt to the shoulders can certainly help reduce pain and increase your enjoyment. Try to make sure the shoulders are suitably warmed up before playing to as more blood flow in the muscles around it the less aches and pains you'll get.

 

[Jacko_G]

Or you can look at it from an alternative point of view where Leadbetter "destroyed" a free flowing talented girl to sell books.

I'm sure her parents views were listened to but I'm also confident that she herself wouldn't have thrown away or dismissed her coaches if she was convinced she was on the right track.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11763307

 

[Jacko_G]

I think it was Billy Horschel that said


"Lydia Ko had a beautiful swing until Leadbetter got his hands on it"

 

[Wolf]

Easy to hate on someone like leadbetter because he has a style you don't agree with. The comments of pro slating coaches or even people on here I find comical because because it's never consistent.

People hate leadbetter for what he supposedly did to likes of Ko, yet praise the likes of Faldo or Els swing or Price for his achievements yet all students of Leadbetter. More recently so many slate Foley and his approach yet same. People congratulate Rose on his accomplishments for World No1 and a brilliant swing yet that's all Foleys coaching.

For every bad comment about a coach there can be equally as many good ones. So maybe we need more balance when looking at these things. If A swing and it's biomechanics help the OP with pain free golf then go for it who are we to judge based on certain dislikes for people we've never met or interacted with directly

 

[Jacko_G]

Easy to hate on someone like leadbetter because he has a style you don't agree with. The comments of pro slating coaches or even people on here I find comical because because it's never consistent.

People hate leadbetter for what he supposedly did to likes of Ko, yet praise the likes of Faldo or Els swing or Price for his achievements yet all students of Leadbetter. More recently so many slate Foley and his approach yet same. People congratulate Rose on his accomplishments for World No1 and a brilliant swing yet that's all Foleys coaching.

For every bad comment about a coach there can be equally as many good ones. So maybe we need more balance when looking at these things. If A swing and it's biomechanics help the OP with pain free golf then go for it who are we to judge based on certain dislikes for people we've never met or interacted with directly

I'm not a huge swing guru but this puts you into a very very steep angle of attack.

Also when I read up on this "method" Leadbetter himself claims that it's designed more for beginners and not seasoned players, which for me begs the question why did he put Ko onto this system?

The only answer I can realistically come up with is to sell his books and theory. Ko was already an outstanding golfer with a wonderful hold swing.

 

[Parsaregood]

I'm not a huge swing guru but this puts you into a very very steep angle of attack.

Also when I read up on this "method" Leadbetter himself claims that it's designed more for beginners and not seasoned players, which for me begs the question why did he put Ko onto this system?

The only answer I can realistically come up with is to sell his books and theory. Ko was already an outstanding golfer with a wonderful hold swing.

It doesn't encourage a steep aoa, in an ideal a swing the left arm will be on the same plane as the shoulders with the club across the line at the top. It actually encourages an in to out swing path. People confuse shaft plane on the backswing as being steep where in reality the arms in an ideal a swing will actually be on plane. The idea is it's actually the most efficient way to swim as hands and arms travel a shorter distance but the clubhead travels a greater distance thus generating more power for the same effort. It has been scientifically proven to be true.
This swing has benefits, though i am not myself an advocate of it

 

[Jacko_G]

Idea is the most efficient, well why is it not endorsed then?

Also I didn't say it encourages a steep angle of attack. I was referring to Ko who is now incredibly steep compared to where she was.

As I quite clearly stated I am no swing guru but her swing has gotten way worse u der Leadbetter and it really is no surprise that she has moved away from a technique that was a million miles removed from her own natural swing, a swing that was so successful that she should have stuck with it.

 

[Wolf]

Idea is the most efficient, well why is it not endorsed then?

Also I didn't say it encourages a steep angle of attack. I was referring to Ko who is now incredibly steep compared to where she was.

As I quite clearly stated I am no swing guru but her swing has gotten way worse u der Leadbetter and it really is no surprise that she has moved away from a technique that was a million miles removed from her own natural swing, a swing that was so successful that she should have stuck with it.

I'm not an A swing advocate or an advocate of any guru, however in Ko instance the only reason the changes would have been made is she asked for his help and accepted the choices, nobody has a coach or his opinion forced on them.

Golf channel did a good comparison video where they had Ko side by side in her swing before Leadbetter, with Leadbetter and post his era. She was actually shallower on her AoA with Leadbetter than she was in her before and afters, maybe that's why she chose him originally but found it wasn't for her, bit like Tiger and Foley, he liked the idea but when in practise it didn't suit, but for others it will.

As for the A swing itself from what I've seen and read it doesn't create a steep AoA it's designed for the simplest and shortest movement on way back whilst clubhead still travels furthest distance whilst this shows a steeper backswing, it actually is designed to shallow the AoA on the downswing, much like Sergio does in a way quick pick up and drops it inside.

This is probably why the OP finds it better with his shoulder injury there is less stress on his shoulder with the A swing as it creates a different path on the shoulder turn

 

[Jensen]

Believe Michelle Wie has reverted to the A swing too.

 

[Jacko_G]

I'm not an A swing advocate or an advocate of any guru, however in Ko instance the only reason the changes would have been made is she asked for his help and accepted the choices, nobody has a coach or his opinion forced on them.

Golf channel did a good comparison video where they had Ko side by side in her swing before Leadbetter, with Leadbetter and post his era. She was actually shallower on her AoA with Leadbetter than she was in her before and afters, maybe that's why she chose him originally but found it wasn't for her, bit like Tiger and Foley, he liked the idea but when in practise it didn't suit, but for others it will.

As for the A swing itself from what I've seen and read it doesn't create a steep AoA it's designed for the simplest and shortest movement on way back whilst clubhead still travels furthest distance whilst this shows a steeper backswing, it actually is designed to shallow the AoA on the downswing, much like Sergio does in a way quick pick up and drops it inside.

This is probably why the OP finds it better with his shoulder injury there is less stress on his shoulder with the A swing as it creates a different path on the shoulder turn

I find it very hard to believe she is less steep, very very hard.

 

[Wolf]

I find it very hard to believe she is less steep, very very hard.

Depends what your classing as steep if your looking at her backswing then yes it's steeper but in the downswing she was shallower. But as they showed on the video he is steeper now than with Leadbetter, it was Karen stupples who did the analysis.

I agree her swing is worse now but that doesn't mean it's all one person's fault she chose to make changes and now is making more changes and that's the real cause of her issues, her choices and hers alone.

 

[Wolf]

Believe Michelle Wie has reverted to the A swing too.

And she isn't table top putting anymore, that always looked so awkward

 

[Parmo]

No that's a common misconception she actually had a really good win ratio when working with Leadbetter. He has since gone on to say the change of coach and fall out wasn't to do with his method but was influenced by her father thinking she needed a new coach to win even more, and that he and Lydia are both accepting of this now. She is in more of a mess now as the newer method is so far removed from what she was good at.

As for the A swing itself I like some of the things it creates especially how it explains the shoulder turn motion and setting of the club. I think that alone is probably what's helping the OP as if I'm right in assuming the plate he has will be at the humeral head which attaches to pec & teres major as well as to the lats, all of which control the adduction and rotation of the humerus, this movement alone can causing the pain and aching in shoulders through golf.

In my experience working with shoulder injuries the A swing or something with a similar tilt to the shoulders can certainly help reduce pain and increase your enjoyment. Try to make sure the shoulders are suitably warmed up before playing to as more blood flow in the muscles around it the less aches and pains you'll get.

Correct, I actually fractured the humerus mid way and chipped a bone from the humeral head as well as rip the tendons & muscles away from the shoulder. I am booking some lessons with a Leadbetter coach to work on it.

 

[Wolf]

Correct, I actually fractured the humerus mid way and chipped a bone from the humeral head as well as rip the tendons & muscles away from the shoulder. I am booking some lessons with a Leadbetter coach to work on it.

Did they have to do any work on the rotator cuff muscles or any surgery to acromimum joint.

As I mentioned the rotation of the shoulder girdle, pec and teres major could get pain through golf rotation to the more tilt that's provided in A swing is probably why you felt more comfortable, keep working at it and hope those lessons go well be interested in hearing your progress. If you need any advice in shoulder injury exercise drop me a Pm

 

[Parsaregood]

People misunderstand that shaft plane on the backswing and arm plane on the backswing can be completely different. Just because your shaft plane is steep doesn't necessarily mean you have a 'steep swing '. Left arm and shoulder plane are much more important. The A swing is good for people with limited mobility, though a good alternative for people it can prove difficult to master the pitching technique with this method.

 

[Parmo]

Did they have to do any work on the rotate cuff muscles or any surgery to acromimum joint.

They had to reattach them I think, I have around 90% use of the arm and over four years since not had a problem. I shall keep you updated, I'll book the lessons this weekend.