Labours Lost Voters

DCB said:
Totally agree with what you say, but, we went through far too long a period without serious investment which meant that it was too costly to do even simple lifecycle upgrades to the existing estate never mind rebuilding new hospitals etc. PFI was seen as a way round the problem. It only created a new problem. Focus on sensible, planned expenditure has to be the goal to provide facilities suitable for 2015 and beyond. PFI was a kneejerk reaction.

That said, our local hospital infrastructure was changed with the opening of a PFI hospital. If that hadn't happened, we'd still be going to old victorian sites for treatment.
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PFI was also favoured by HMG because at that time the cost was off the balance sheet.
 
MegaSteve said:
Trying to "boss the centre ground" hasn't done them many favours either...

There's plenty of support for Labour out there... Just need to persuade them out of their cosy living rooms on polling day...
Perhaps a battle cry from the leftside might be what is needed... Plus being even more tee'd off with austerity measures another five years down the line...
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That would be the austerity measures that has created the highest growth rate in the EU, huge increases in jobs, a steady reduction in the National defect and lower tax thresholds, would it? Seems quite progressive to me.

Personally I hope some left wing looney like Corbyn gets the Labour leaders job as it will assist to keep Labour from ruining the country again.
 
SocketRocket said:
That would be the austerity measures that has created the highest growth rate in the EU, huge increases in jobs, a steady reduction in the National defect and lower tax thresholds, would it? Seems quite progressive to me.
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If you are amongst those that have been perched on the wrong end of the pineapple...
Being progressive will be the least of your concerns...
 
As a floating voter who voted for UKIP last time and the lib dems before. I am and will continue to be a floater. My problem is that through what has happened to the miners I cannot find it in me to vote for the Tories and also Labour who could of helped the "working class" but did not. Non of what I have said is new news.
however I have one foot in the retirement door so my personal interests/priorities in policies will change.
re Labour I will struggle to name anyone or recognise anyone in there party. The one I do who seems to be half sensible is Harriet Harmen who will not be standing as the next leader of Labour. So that leaves us with nobby no names as leader of a party who has a couple of years to turn things around with policies that have not yet been decided.
The only thing that could bring voters flooding back is if the Torys majorly screw up.
 
SocketRocket said:
Personally I hope some left wing looney like Corbyn gets the Labour leaders job as it will assist to keep Labour from ruining the country again.
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Labour didn't ruin the country - it was a joint effort with the bankers in which Labour may well have been the junior partner. Or were the banking crisis and the bailouts figments of my imagination. Don't think so. Anyway - lets blame Labour for the greedy and destructive proclivities of the banks as well - it's neater that way and makes for an easier story.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Labour didn't ruin the country - it was a joint effort with the bankers in which Labour may well have been the junior partner. Or were the banking crisis and the bailouts figments of my imagination. Don't think so. Anyway - lets blame Labour for the greedy and destructive proclivities of the banks as well - it's neater that way and makes for an easier story.
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Who mentioned anything about Labour creating the Banking Crisis? I don't believe I did !

What Labour do in Government is mismanage the economy by spending too much of our money on Public Services. It was Brown that brought in this ludicrous Tax Credit system that was another of his ploys just like mass immigration to try and get more people voting Labour. They always do the same things and leave the country broke so the next Tory government have to impose austerity means to pay off the debt. Their biggest fault though is thinking the electorate wont see through it and vote them in again.
 
SocketRocket said:
Who mentioned anything about Labour creating the Banking Crisis? I don't believe I did !

What Labour do in Government is mismanage the economy by spending too much of our money on Public Services. It was Brown that brought in this ludicrous Tax Credit system that was another of his ploys just like mass immigration to try and get more people voting Labour. They always do the same things and leave the country broke so the next Tory government have to impose austerity means to pay off the debt. Their biggest fault though is thinking the electorate wont see through it and vote them in again.
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You said Labour ruined the country - I believe it was a joint effort with the banks
 
SocketRocket said:
Who mentioned anything about Labour creating the Banking Crisis? I don't believe I did !

What Labour do in Government is mismanage the economy by spending too much of our money on Public Services. It was Brown that brought in this ludicrous Tax Credit system that was another of his ploys just like mass immigration to try and get more people voting Labour. They always do the same things and leave the country broke so the next Tory government have to impose austerity means to pay off the debt. Their biggest fault though is thinking the electorate wont see through it and vote them in again.
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PlOys? Ha, look at the Selfservatives. They pay off their donors by giving them access to buy off public services and as we speak are trying to prevent unions from donating to Labour. They also have the gall to demand a 40% vote in IA votes when they got elected on less than 25% of the total available vote. And they are planning to gerrymander constituencies to further hit the Labour vote.

The best trick the Tories ever pulled off was to convince the small business "hard working families" that the Tories were their friends, when in fact the Tories despise them. Plebs indeed. They persuaded the feckless voters by blowing dog whistles of immigration, anti-welfare and anti-Europe. And then in every budget they bash this group of supporters, but they distract the "hard working families" by making the headlines about the welfare recipients. Working class who vote Tory are complete mugs.
 
SocketRocket said:
Who mentioned anything about Labour creating the Banking Crisis? I don't believe I did !

What Labour do in Government is mismanage the economy by spending too much of our money on Public Services. It was Brown that brought in this ludicrous Tax Credit system that was another of his ploys just like mass immigration to try and get more people voting Labour. They always do the same things and leave the country broke so the next Tory government have to impose austerity means to pay off the debt. Their biggest fault though is thinking the electorate wont see through it and vote them in again.
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Austerity isn't mandated by the economic recession, it just fits in well with the Tory narrative.
 
Ethan said:
PlOys? Ha, look at the Selfservatives. They pay off their donors by giving them access to buy off public services and as we speak are trying to prevent unions from donating to Labour. They also have the gall to demand a 40% vote in IA votes when they got elected on less than 25% of the total available vote. And they are planning to gerrymander constituencies to further hit the Labour vote.

The best trick the Tories ever pulled off was to convince the small business "hard working families" that the Tories were their friends, when in fact the Tories despise them. Plebs indeed. They persuaded the feckless voters by blowing dog whistles of immigration, anti-welfare and anti-Europe. And then in every budget they bash this group of supporters, but they distract the "hard working families" by making the headlines about the welfare recipients. Working class who vote Tory are complete mugs.
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A damning inditement on 'Working class' Tory voters (Who ever these 'working class' are these days)

I just love the way you decide that anyone who thinks we have suffered too much immigration or spend too much on welfare are mugs and are so thick should be denied the vote. Stalin had a lot of people who also thought that the proletariat didn't know what was good for them. Maybe the answer is Gulags for stupid 'Hard Working Families'
 
SocketRocket said:
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What Labour do in Government is mismanage the economy by spending too much of our money on Public Services.
...
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The 'counter' argument to that is that the Tories (in cahoots with Lib-Dems last parliament) mismanage the assets of the country by selling them off at what is subsequently deemed to a far too low price!

Which one you decide takes priority really depends on you natural political point of view imo!

Gordon Brown did, however, demonstrate how much closer Labour had shifted towards the Conservatives by actually managing to both increase the public sector portion of the economy AND sell off assets at lower than optimum!! :rolleyes:

Imo, the 2008 Banking Crisis would have battered the Conservatives just as much as it battered Labour! I think, on the whole, it was handled pretty well by 'the government', much of which was non-political - following advice from the likes of Bank of England etc. Even the story of how Brown talked Lloyds's Chairman into the 'merger' with HBOS (a deal that subsequently caused the need for Lloyds to be bailed out) wasn't 'political', simply something any government would have probably wished to achieve!
 
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Foxholer said:
The 'counter' argument to that is that the Tories (in cahoots with Lib-Dems last parliament) mismanage the assets of the country by selling them off at what is subsequently deemed to a far too low price!

Which one you decide takes priority really depends on you natural political point of view imo!

Gordon Brown did, however, demonstrate how much closer Labour had shifted towards the Conservatives by actually managing to both increase the public sector portion of the economy AND sell off assets at lower than optimum!! :rolleyes:

Imo, the 2008 Banking Crisis would have battered the Conservatives just as much as it battered Labour! I think, on the whole, it was handled pretty well by 'the government', much of which was non-political - following advice from the likes of Bank of England etc. Even the story of how Brown talked Lloyds's Chairman into the 'merger' with HBOS (a deal that subsequently caused the need for Lloyds to be bailed out) wasn't 'political', simply something any government would have probably wished to achieve!
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I reiterate that I do not blame Labour directly for the banking Crisis of 2008. Maybe they should have ensured the FSA had a better handle of the situation though.
 
SocketRocket said:
A damning inditement on 'Working class' Tory voters (Who ever these 'working class' are these days)

I just love the way you decide that anyone who thinks we have suffered too much immigration or spend too much on welfare are mugs and are so thick should be denied the vote. Stalin had a lot of people who also thought that the proletariat didn't know what was good for them. Maybe the answer is Gulags for stupid 'Hard Working Families'
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Typical response avoiding the point and resorting to personal attacks instead. How Tory of you.

You know perfectly well that I was saying that the Tories con these people by pandering to issues which distract from the real issues. They are very good at it. But the Tories are not friends of the 'hard working families', a term Cameron uses with a derisive tone to allow people to self identify against the non working, and therefore untrustworthy spongers. When budget time comes, the hard working families get screwed. When Cameron says 'We are all in this together', what he means is 'You plebs are all in this together'.
 
We talk about the banking crisis as if it was politically neutral. Global finance pays for the Tories, lobbies through the Tories and cost this country (and the global economy) billions(trilions). No brown stuff adheres.

Trade unions conduct a legally controlled ballot and conduct a legal dispute with TFL over changes to working conditions that adversely affect the lives of their members and the labour party gets dragged through the mire by all sides of the press.

It's a crazy world, and not in a good way
 
where is the reduction in the deficit.
under labour it was in billions
under the tories we are now in trillions
that is an increase, or it was under labours maths, may not be under rose coloured torie specs

shagster
 
shagster said:
where is the reduction in the deficit.
under labour it was in billions
under the tories we are now in trillions
that is an increase, or it was under labours maths, may not be under rose coloured torie specs

shagster
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You seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between the National Debt and the Deficit.
 
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