Labours Lost Voters

Ethan said:
Typical response avoiding the point and resorting to personal attacks instead. How Tory of you.

You know perfectly well that I was saying that the Tories con these people by pandering to issues which distract from the real issues. They are very good at it. But the Tories are not friends of the 'hard working families', a term Cameron uses with a derisive tone to allow people to self identify against the non working, and therefore untrustworthy spongers. When budget time comes, the hard working families get screwed. When Cameron says 'We are all in this together', what he means is 'You plebs are all in this together'.
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Oh! I know what you were saying alright. suggesting anyone with a different political view to yours are thick and stupid. Such a typical Socialist ploy.

You seem to ignore how Tony Blair and Gordon Brown used that term 'Hard Working Families" relentlessly :http://jackthurston.com/articles/hardworking-families/
 
SocketRocket said:
I reiterate that I do not blame Labour directly for the banking Crisis of 2008. Maybe they should have ensured the FSA had a better handle of the situation though.
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And I never stated you did!

As for the FSA...This was an entirely Tory creation - as was Deregulation! So it's easily arguable that THEY should have been the ones to set it up better!

I'm also not actually assigning blame, just showing how Labour got stuffed by circumstances rather than by actual incompetence.

Even that other Tory 'creation' (PFI) that Brown made far too much (imo) use of - as it was 'off book' - has been misused by the Tories (imo), in spite of Osborne's criticism of it when in opposition!

So it's all really just a matter of who has the best PR imo (and natural leanings as I previously posted).

Btw. The Tax Credits system would probably a lot less expensive if it was actually integrated into the PAYE system. But there are a few blockages to doing that, one of which is the inability of the central HMRC system (developed and maintained via a PFI contract I believe) to be amended economically!


MegaSteve said:
If you are amongst those that have been perched on the wrong end of the pineapple...
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A fantastic expression that I can't recall having heard before!
 
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shagster said:
ok socket, please enlighten me
all i know is the national debt is rising
please can you put your spin on it as it will be interesting

shagster
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If you can't work out that the Deficit and the National Debt are different things then go look it up and come back when you know what you are talking about!
 
shagster said:
i asked you to explain, as you disagreed with my statement, any reason you are unwilling to

shagster
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Because you don't understand the subject. As I suggested, go look it up and when you know what you are talking about we may be able to have a sensible discussion.
 
obviously unable to answer my question.
i looked it up and what ever tory spin you wish to put on it, we are borrowing more each year, something you do not or can not accept or admit
but as you seem to understand the subject far better than us mere workers, what is your answer, and perhaps you can enlighten good old dave so he can spin it some more

shagster
 
SocketRocket said:
Oh! I know what you were saying alright. suggesting anyone with a different political view to yours are thick and stupid. Such a typical Socialist ploy.
...
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SocketRocket said:
shagster said:
ok socket, please enlighten me
all i know is the national debt is rising
please can you put your spin on it as it will be interesting

shagster
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If you can't work out that the Deficit and the National Debt are different things then go look it up and come back when you know what you are talking about!
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:confused: Socket. No offence intended, but have you suddenly acquired some Socialist traits? :rofl:

@shagster

Indeed, the National Debt is rising, because there continues to be a Deficit each year. However, the Tories have stated (and budgeted for) the Deficit to reduce to zero over the course of this Parliament. Of course, they made the same statement at the beginning of the last one and failed, but that's all forgotten now!

@jp5

As you imply, I'm pretty sure the Tories would have tagged along with the US into the illegal Iraq War. I'm pretty sure they would have sold in a better way than Blair's method - using spin rather than facts and reasoning.

I think it's rather more than 'a small fraction of Welfare' involved!

And Labour is renowned for massively increasing the Civil Service (or at least those paid from the Public Purse - Qangos etc). They need to increase the civil service in order to administer all the new rules/methods/overseeing bodies they create! Of course, that also has a side benefit of potentially reducing the Unemployment statistics!!
 
shagster said:
obviously unable to answer my question.
i looked it up and what ever tory spin you wish to put on it, we are borrowing more each year, something you do not or can not accept or admit
but as you seem to understand the subject far better than us mere workers, what is your answer, and perhaps you can enlighten good old dave so he can spin it some more

shagster
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If you have bothered to understand the difference you will notice that since 2010 the deficit has reduced year on year and is projected into surplus around 2019/2020. Just prior to 2010 the deficit grew by a very large amount.

It doesn't need spin to explain and for your information you do your fellow workers a disservice suggesting they don't understand these things.
 
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