Kid2 >>>>

[JustOne]

hmmmm...... I'd imagine the backswing in putting is quite important? probably wouldn't want to swing it around your ankles... you could of course learn to do it this way.

Probably wouldn't use Kuchar as an example of a swing to copy, he makes it work for him (ala Furyk) if the ball is consistently doing what you want then no worries.

 

[bobmac]

I'd imagine the backswing in putting is quite important? probably wouldn't want to swing it around your ankles

Not really the same though are they, a 12in putting stroke and a full speed swing

Probably wouldn't use Kuchar as an example of a swing to copy

Don't recall saying it was a swing to copy

It's your plane that is killing you...

I'm just saying if you have a flat backswing and a bit of a throw that ends up on plane, why fix it?
You only have to ask Aztec how difficult it is to cure a throw at the top.
If you were to ask someone to change their backswing AND the transition in their swing, it would take most folk a very long time and their game would be worse for a long time.
The book may say do this and do that but in my experience of teaching people to play better and enjoy their golf more, sometimes the book goes out the window and two wrongs do make a right.
After all, what's more important to get right, the backswing or the downswing.

 

[JustOne]

^
^
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I'm not disagreeing with you Bob.

His downswing isn't right as he's having to flip the club (and then it closes). I feel that a better backswing will help the position of the downswing.

 

[kid2]

Whatever you say.
Sorry Kid2, totally lost interest now

No worries Bob...No need to apologize no offence taken:thup:.....

 

[kid2]

If they get it right in the backswing they are in a much better position to get it right at impact.

There is nothing wrong with working on a perfect swing, you may not achieve it but the nearer you get the better you will strike the ball.

SR i have to agree with Bob to an extent....
There is no such thing as a perfect swing just look at the variance on the tours...

To be honest everyones swing has compensations somewhere in it...
All im trying to do is narrow my dispersion......Off the tee is where im loosing strokes..I can put up with missing greens as the short game isnt too bad....
But whats stopping my handicap from tumbling quicker are destructive tee shots....

Take it from my perspective.....Started playing the game with a slice and a bad one at that...Figured out after a while that grip and alignment were the blame and sorted that....Slice became a nice controllable fade.......
But....I wasnt happy was i!......I decided id give S&T a wallop..It went well for a time but i never actually stayed with it long enough to make it work....Probably a big mistake...But there is always the present..I spent 12 months then trying to draw the ball with Bobs sponge drill and for the most part it was working except i was really struggling with the longer clubs......
Where im at now though is that im loosing the ball both ways left and right....Its only something small as i can have stormers of ball striking rounds but where i get a little nervous is the direction i want to start the ball at...

As you can imagine when your loosing it both ways its hard to trust where your aiming....

Im a bit of a stubborn so and so with regards to doing things myself which is why i havent gone the lessons route.......I know that i have the ability and the patience to get lower and if that means asking a few harmless questions on here every now and again then so be it....
Im always grateful to Bob and James for helping me and if im honest Bob does know what he is talking about his advice has helped me along the way from when i first started playing....It was his advice that stopped me slicing the ball...
And getting advice from James has also been good....I get his insight from playing to a low handicap with a conventional swing and also now from his present S&T route....

Its great that this forum has members like them...Only for them id be stuck still slicing the ball


Also i agree with what your saying in that if you can minimize some of the bad things being done it puts you in a better place.....But.......There will always be compensations to be made. Regardless of how good you can get your swing...Thats a given!

 

[SocketRocket]

SR i have to agree with Bob to an extent....
There is no such thing as a perfect swing just look at the variance on the tours...

To be honest everyones swing has compensations somewhere in it...
All im trying to do is narrow my dispersion......Off the tee is where im loosing strokes..I can put up with missing greens as the short game isnt too bad....
But whats stopping my handicap from tumbling quicker are destructive tee shots....

Take it from my perspective.....Started playing the game with a slice and a bad one at that...Figured out after a while that grip and alignment were the blame and sorted that....Slice became a nice controllable fade.......
But....I wasnt happy was i!......I decided id give S&T a wallop..It went well for a time but i never actually stayed with it long enough to make it work....Probably a big mistake...But there is always the present..I spent 12 months then trying to draw the ball with Bobs sponge drill and for the most part it was working except i was really struggling with the longer clubs......
Where im at now though is that im loosing the ball both ways left and right....Its only something small as i can have stormers of ball striking rounds but where i get a little nervous is the direction i want to start the ball at...

As you can imagine when your loosing it both ways its hard to trust where your aiming....

Im a bit of a stubborn so and so with regards to doing things myself which is why i havent gone the lessons route.......I know that i have the ability and the patience to get lower and if that means asking a few harmless questions on here every now and again then so be it....
Im always grateful to Bob and James for helping me and if im honest Bob does know what he is talking about his advice has helped me along the way from when i first started playing....It was his advice that stopped me slicing the ball...
And getting advice from James has also been good....I get his insight from playing to a low handicap with a conventional swing and also now from his present S&T route....

Its great that this forum has members like them...Only for them id be stuck still slicing the ball


Also i agree with what your saying in that if you can minimize some of the bad things being done it puts you in a better place.....But.......There will always be compensations to be made. Regardless of how good you can get your swing...Thats a given!

I have not suggested that you must get a perfect golf swing. I have only stated that if you can work on getting the club in the right places then it will help your ball striking. I think that accepting a situation where you need to make unnecessary adjustments will only lead to a lack of consistency and poor ball striking.

Others do it so it cannot be beyond your ability to get a nice consistent swing and good ball striking. I am not out to discredit anyone, I happen to agree with many of the things suggested here.

Try to think of ball striking in it's most simplest form. The golf swing is not a black art its mostly a natural action that does not require a lot of advanced skill. I would suggest that you take a bit of time thinking through your swing, rerun some videos of it and consider what is creating your inconsistency. Try to think of ways that you can stay centered, reduce twisting in the arms and wrists and return the clubface square to the ball.

May the force go with you :thup:

 

[RGDave]

It's long thread, is it not?

I haven't read the whys and how and wherefores, but I do know that 3 weeks ago I was all over the place, hitting it nice but SO inconsistent. I've improved my plane on the backswing no end and my consistency is back (albeit with a week in hell en route). Co-incidence, or a worthwhile investment of my time?

I'd have thought you don't need a perfect swing to play golf, but the better it is, the less work to groove something consistent enough to take to the course...

 

[timchump]

my two pennies worth.....

my first lesson with a new pro this year, he says "today were going to work on your back swing"
i couldn't help thinking this isn't going to make much difference and i really would rather work on something else, but i went with it

he identified exactly what justone has done in the original post, i had the same fault and worked on keeping the club head outside the hands as in the justin rose pics.

i agree you could hit good shots with your fault a la matt kucher, but working on keeping club outside the hands worked for me, i'm not a talented sports person, i think people like me need to hit key points in the swing have a better chance of hitting good shots, unlike more talented people and the pros who can hit good shots regardless of little idiosyncrasies

it is a common fault that just one has identified why not work on it? i had to pay £20 to be told this

 

[RGDave]

my two pennies worth.....

my first lesson with a new pro this year, he says "today were going to work on your back swing"
i couldn't help thinking this isn't going to make much difference and i really would rather work on something else, but i went with it

he identified exactly what justone has done in the original post, i had the same fault and worked on keeping the club head outside the hands as in the justin rose pics.

i agree you could hit good shots with your fault a la matt kucher, but working on keeping club outside the hands worked for me, i'm not a talented sports person, i think people like me need to hit key points in the swing have a better chance of hitting good shots, unlike more talented people and the pros who can hit good shots regardless of little idiosyncrasies

it is a common fault that just one has identified why not work on it? i had to pay £20 to be told this

Agreed. Cost me £20 too!

and today cost me another £20, but I'm as happy as bunny in fresh grass. Can't wait to play tomorrow

 

[JustOne]

i had to pay £20 to be told this

........ so will Kid2

 

[JustOne]

David Feherty just interviewed McIlroy... he's the world No2.... and this is what he said....

(I'm typing it word for word as i can't be arsed to video it off the tele...)

"I'm working on getting the hands a little higher at the top of the backswing, that'll give me a little more time on the way down and,um, then I won't get it stuck in behind me and then flip it. So just trying to get the club out in front of me and on a better plane and from there, you know, I've got more room and more time to hit the ball on the line that I want to....."


Simon Holmes then went on to discuss the two plane swing however I wouldn't put McIlroy in that category at all (or recommend it) as McIlroy has such amazing tilt on his shoulders (left shoulder down) generally he's much more one plane than two... he's probably looking for no more than 1 or 2 inches.

As you can see here the left arm finishes on the shoulder plane.....
[video=youtube;P7YJc8szc_0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7YJc8szc_0[/video]

:thup:

 

[bobmac]

it is a common fault that just one has identified why not work on it?

James has indeed indentified a problem in Kids backswing. Sadly he also has a fault in his downswing. Some may say it's the backswing that's causing the fault in the downswing, I dont agree.
Of course I do agree that getting the hands a little higher is good advice FOR SOME if that is their only fault.
But most golfers I've met would find it very difficult if not impossible to change the backswing AND the downswing.
All I'm saying is if you have 2 faults and you can only fix one of them, fix the one that hits the ball, ie the one in the downswing. And if you dont agree, ask yourself this.....if kid fixes his backswing and gets his hands higher then throws at the top, how much more out to in will his downswing be?
If I was Kid, this is the position I would be trying to improve on and he can do that without touching his backswing.

 

[timchump]

good point, and a great pic of releasing and extending towards the target :fore:

 

[JustOne]

This thread appears to be some kind of slagging match, I assure you I'm not party to it, I just spotted what I believe is the issue with Kids swing.... the rest is open to simple, plain discussion. Ultimately it matters not as it's his swing to tinker with.

ask yourself this.....if kid fixes his backswing and gets his hands higher then throws at the top, how much more out to in will his downswing be?

It's not higher hands per se that I mention in my 1st post, it's the plane the club is on (the path of the clubhead) The club needs to go more UP rather than back. IMO the hands starting a little to the inside isn't the issue.

 

[bobmac]

This thread appears to be some kind of slagging match

Don't know if I'm to blame but if I am, don't worry James, my days on here are numbered.
Getting fed up with the argueing and the pedantic bickering that seems to be almost a daily occurence recently.

 

[JustOne]

Don't know if I'm to blame but if I am,.

You're not, there is no right or wrong, only opinion. :thup: Don't know why everyone continually seems to get so wound up all the time..... i don't mind if people disagree with me... seems par for the course here sometimes.... but I guess that's just part of the process... always a lot of rights/wrongs/contradictions and conflicting advise/opinion when it comes to swinging a weighted stick at a stationary sphere!

 

[SocketRocket]

Don't know if I'm to blame but if I am, don't worry James, my days on here are numbered.
Getting fed up with the argueing and the pedantic bickering that seems to be almost a daily occurence recently.

Bob. Why do you take it so personal.

Someone asks for advice on here and some of us try to help them. You are a PGA Pro and have certain ways that you like to teach. Others are just golfers that have ideas on golf and our own experiences to draw from. I try to help people but not by making comments on others posts, I prefer to give my own views but if they are challenged I will try to justify how I came to my conclusions.

I would not try to discredit your posts, it's up to the OP to decide what they think will help them. Surely you must accept that there will be differing opinions to yours, that's inevitable. Please don't take offense from this as no one has made any personal comments about you.

If people like Myself and James are getting under your skin then maybe you can PM us and let us know how we should frame our posts so they don't irritate you.

 

[bobmac]

Bob. Why do you take it so personal.

I'm not taking anything personally.

I merely said I'm "getting fed up with the argueing and the pedantic bickering that seems to be almost a daily occurence recently"

What's that go to do with me?

I'm talking about threads like 'Getting into competitions' that start off with a polite enquiry but quickly turns into an arguement about what exactly? And there are many others.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'm not taking anything personally.

I merely said I'm "getting fed up with the argueing and the pedantic bickering that seems to be almost a daily occurence recently"

What's that go to do with me?

I'm talking about threads like 'Getting into competitions' that start off with a polite enquiry but quickly turns into an arguement about what exactly? And there are many others.

OK, Thanks for the explanation. I just assumed that as you had made the comment in this thread that it was the things that have been discussed here that have brought you to say that' Your days here are numbered'.