Kicking ball

[Skytot]

Played in a Comp yesterday with 2 other playing partners. Let’s call them player A & Player B..
par 3 and I had hit my ball short and landed on a bank , played my 2nd shot and hit thinned into the bottom of the bank of a pond ( Hazard) . Which I was able to chip out and on to the green.
Player B who was short of the green shanked his ball towards the pond but player A kicked it back into play from the edge of the pond .. stopping it going into the pond .. We wasn’t 100% sure of the ruling , player B continued from where player A had kicked it back into play ..
Was this correct?

 

[Steven Rules]

Clarification needed.

Was B's ball at rest or moving when A kicked it?

Did A kick B's ball deliberately with the intent of 'helping A out'?

 

[Steven Rules]

For the time being I'll assume the answer to both is 'yes'.

The relevant Rule is 11.2 - Ball in Motion Deliberately Deflected or Stopped by Person. You can read it in full for yourself but the key points relevant to my assumptions about the situation are as follows.

A player gets the general penalty if they deliberately deflect or stop any ball in motion.
This is true whether it is the player’s own ball or a ball played by an opponent or by another player in stroke play.

If it is known or virtually certain that a player’s ball in motion was deliberately deflected or stopped by a person (whether or not the ball has been found), it must not be played as it lies. Instead, the player must take relief based on the estimated spot where the ball would have come to rest if not deflected or stopped.

If the estimated spot of the ball is in a penalty area, the player may alternatively take relief from the penalty area under Rule 17.1d based on the estimated point the ball would have last crossed the edge of the penalty area.

Player A should have received a general penalty for deliberately stopping or deflecting B's ball.

Player B should have got a general penalty for playing from a wrong place. I'll assume a serious breach and that B didn't correct the error before starting the next hole. B is disqualified.

 

[Skytot]

Clarification needed.

Was B's ball at rest or moving when A kicked it?

Did A kick B's ball deliberately with the intent of 'helping A out'?

Player B ball was moving .
Player A kicked it spontaneously to prevent it going into the water .

 

[Skytot]

Thanks very much .
In the end Player B thinned his ball to the back of the green and made a 5 and didn’t score in the Stableford comp . He also NR his card having bad case of shanks . Interesting that Player A gets a penalty though

 

[Steven Rules]

CONTENT WARNING: sermon to follow

Interesting that Player A gets a penalty though

Well I find it ‘interesting’ that it is only a general penalty, rather than disqualification, for an act that represents such egregious divergence from the spirit of the game.

I also find it ‘interesting’ (or probably ‘disappointing’ is a more apt word) that three players, while uncertain of the ruling, saw no harm in carrying on without penalty, saw no harm in playing the ball as it lies, made no attempt to look it up for themselves on the spot**, and did not seek clarification from the Committee before submitting their scorecards.

** I acknowledge that some aspects of the Rules can be complex but, frankly, it is disappointing that so few players make an attempt at gaining the most basic level of familiarity with even the structure and layout of the Rules. For this specific scenario, just a simple scroll down the Rule headings or the Table of Contents on the app would readily point the player to ‘Deliberate Actions to Affect Ball in Motion’. From there it is written in plain English. If one can understand my post at #3 then one can understand the content of the Rule in question.

 

[Slab]

Cool scenario to get answered, can I add a variable pls

Same fundamental actions but what if player B called out to player A saying "stop my ball pls"

What rule/penalty changes (if anything) is there to the info in post #3 ?

 

[Skytot]

Player A did get his phone out and try and find a ruling , he failed to find a ruling ,didn't have much time with there being a 3 ball behind us .
One of the reasons I posted the scenario on here is to try and educate myself for in the future .

 

[KenL]

Cool scenario to get answered, can I add a variable pls

Same fundamental actions but what if player B called out to player A saying "stop my ball pls"

What rule/penalty changes (if anything) is there to the info in post #3 ?

Nothing wrong with that to me if he wants it not to be lost in the water and carries on by taking a penalty drop.

 

[rulie]

Cool scenario to get answered, can I add a variable pls

Same fundamental actions but what if player B called out to player A saying "stop my ball pls"

What rule/penalty changes (if anything) is there to the info in post #3 ?

Same result in a Competition, not an issue in casual play.

 

[RichA]

Nothing wrong with that to me if he wants it not to be lost in the water and carries on by taking a penalty drop.

Yep. If it was definitely going in the water, everyone knew it was definitely going in the water and he took a drop as if it had gone in the water then where's the harm.
To conclude that he could play it from where it lay after the kick is odd.

 

[Slab]

Nothing wrong with that to me if he wants it not to be lost in the water and carries on by taking a penalty drop.

Yep. If it was definitely going in the water, everyone knew it was definitely going in the water and he took a drop as if it had gone in the water then where's the harm.
To conclude that he could play it from where it lay after the kick is odd.

The way I'm reading @rulie in post #10 then Player A (despite being asked to stop the ball) would still get general pen under 11.2 - Ball in Motion Deliberately Deflected or Stopped by Person

 

[Colin L]

Nothing wrong with that to me if he wants it not to be lost in the water and carries on by taking a penalty drop.

You'll be hard pushed to find a rule to sanction that. Ok though if the moving ball is in the penalty area and the player is going to take relief.

 

[rulefan]

You'll be hard pushed to find a rule to sanction that. Ok though if the moving ball is in the penalty area and the player is going to take relief.

The issue since the rule change is that a player may well be able play the ball from the PA without restriction.

 

[salfordlad]

Cool scenario to get answered, can I add a variable pls

Same fundamental actions but what if player B called out to player A saying "stop my ball pls"

What rule/penalty changes (if anything) is there to the info in post #3 ?

If B calls for it, and A complies, deliberately stopping or deflecting the moving ball, then both players get the general penalty for breach of Rule 11.2.

 

[rulie]

I don't see where B gets a penalty, unless he positioned A to be where B wanted him to be.

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Golf balls are kicked in the UK, then?

Here in the US, we pick them up and throw them.

Do what you do best, I imagine.

 

[rulefan]

I don't see where B gets a penalty, unless he positioned A to be where B wanted him to be.

B, in instructing A, has caused the ball to be in a place other that where it would have otherwise finished.

 

[Skytot]

B didn’t instruct A .
A instinctively kicked it back into play .

 

[IanM]

A genuine reaction to stop a ball going in the water!