Ive had it with lessons and pros!

[caslad81]

Hi all,

I have been playing about a year now and have been having regular lessons since I started spending a fair amount of money but haven’t really seen the benefit. I have a very flat one plane swing very similar looking to Matt Kuchar with my left arm just below my shoulder plane and my hands very deep. The problem has been with the pro's and there school of thought and ideal swing, I have been through three different pros now and all have gave me similar advice "stand more upright, narrow my stance, hold my shoulders back while swinging my arms and thrusting my hip toward the target" amongst a few. The problem is all these drills and advice are fine if you are a two plane swinger but I aren’t. This has caused me no end of problems having to route my flat backswing back down to a steep downswing causing pulls, slices and fats and a severe loss of confidence. During a session at the driving range last week I noticed a guy with a very similar swing to mine smashing the ball long and straight, so I asked him if he could spare me 5 minutes to explain his swing and have a quick look at mine which he did, basically he told me to do the opposite of everything I had been told, widen my stance bend over more swing with the body not the arms ect low and behold I was striking the ball better and straighter than I had in a long time. My point is do the majority of golf pros just teach a generic style of swing (Maybe one for Bob to answer?) as the 3 I have tried have taught 2 plane fundamentals for a one plane swing, no wonder the average handicap hasn’t changed in the last 3 decades, surely a PGA Pro should be proficient with students of both styles of play. Anyway if anyone knows of anyone in West Yorkshire area that specialises in the one plane swing please let me know!

Thanks

 

[Swinger]

It is very hard to find a pro who will work with your natural swing and the way you like to swing it.

Especailly if it is like Matt Kuchars!!

 

[ScienceBoy]

Would be even worse if you swang like Bubba Whats-going-on

 

[Alex1975]

I dont think anything you have said it right or wrong but what you are saying is you have taken the word of a random guy over the guys who you pay for there insite.

Is the problem that you want to swing how you want to swing and you dont really want to hear what the pros are telling you?

PS I do get the fact that you want to start with something natural but it may be very wrong!?

 

[Hookedgolf]

I find things like this remarkable. An amateur player goes to not 1, not 2 but 3 different pros, they all tell him the same thing and you still dont take the hint. Then to top it off you ask another amateur player who in 5 mins tells you to do the exact opposite of what 3 qualified professionals have told you to do and you think you have found the answer.

Too many people think a pro will give a quick fix and you will instantly start hitting better shots, but these things take time and practice. I am a firm believer in you have to get worse before you get better. I bet the pro never said these changes would be easy but what he is trying to do is give you a swing that will hit better shots. I dont think its a case of the pros teaching a generic swing but obviously they are all in agreement in the direction your swing needs to go in order to get better.

Its probably reasons like the above that the average handicap hasnt changed. I.e taking a lesson, no instant success, asking a mate for advice, going with his advice instead of that of the pro etc etc etc.......

I cant remember where i read it but i once saw a pro advertising lessons for £1000 for half an hour or 10 lessons for £100. Stating "if you expect a miracle you need to pay for it"

My advice is to pick one of those pros and talk to him, tell him what you want from the game and then commit to working with his changes. You WILL get better if you work with his advice.

 

[Alex1975]

I cant remember where i read it but i once saw a pro advertising lessons for £1000 for half an hour or 10 lessons for £100. Stating "if you expect a miracle you need to pay for it"

Love it!!

 

[caslad81]

Hookedgolf,

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick. I am not looking for a quick fix hence why I have had a lesson a fortnight for just about a year, I expected to get worse before I got better what I am saying is that I was hitting the ball well to start off with, so why would a pro want to completely build my swing from the ground up when I am not happy swinging on 2 planes and playing fairly well swinging on one? And don’t you think I should have seen some improvement in the past year with nearly 30 hours of teaching under my belt (that aint no quick fix) the point is I listened to the pro and followed there instructions and got worse going from 12.3 back to 18 where I am now. I don’t discount that they know what they are talking about but the one plane swing is a valid swing pattern used by pros and amateurs alike so why if somebody naturally swings that way not work with it?

 

[Alex1975]

You have been playing a year and got a handicap down to 12.3 and back upto 18...WOW?!

What was your starting handicap?

 

[caslad81]

You have been playing a year and got a handicap down to 12.3 and back upto 18...WOW?!

What was your starting handicap?

Im playing to 18, my official handicap is 13.6 and I started with 15, why would that confuse you??

 

[HRC99]

Hookedgolf,

I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick. I am not looking for a quick fix hence why I have had a lesson a fortnight for just about a year, I expected to get worse before I got better what I am saying is that I was hitting the ball well to start off with, so why would a pro want to completely build my swing from the ground up when I am not happy swinging on 2 planes and playing fairly well swinging on one? And don’t you think I should have seen some improvement in the past year with nearly 30 hours of teaching under my belt (that aint no quick fix) the point is I listened to the pro and followed there instructions and got worse going from 12.3 back to 18 where I am now. I don’t discount that they know what they are talking about but the one plane swing is a valid swing pattern used by pros and amateurs alike so why if somebody naturally swings that way not work with it?

You've gone from from a 12.3 handicap to 18?

That's an awful lot of 0.1s.

To get to 12.3 you must have a reasonable amount of natural ability, I'm just baffled as to how you got into such a mess.

You do have to find the right pro and work with them. The right pro is someone whose ideas you buy into, whose message you understand and can put into practice.

 

[sweatysock41]

Because your post appears to state that your handicap is 18, when in fact it is 13.6.
Playing to 18 is frustrating but that is not your handicap.

 

[Alex1975]

You have been playing a year and got a handicap down to 12.3 and back upto 18...WOW?!

What was your starting handicap?

Im playing to 18, my official handicap is 13.6 and I started with 15, why would that confuse you??

NP you seem to know what you want, I dont even know what the point of the post was if you dont want to talk abou it though. I think for someone in there 1st year with a handicap of 14 who makes a post called "Ive had it with lessons and pros!" is living in a different world to me, good luck to ya.

 

[DelB]

Im playing to 18, my official handicap is 13.6 and I started with 15, why would that confuse you??

Because you didn't say that, perhaps??

 

[THJahar]

hmmm, this is exactly what I experienced with pro's.
A lot of them have this cookie cutter approach to training and to veer from it they will struggle.
caslad81 clearly stated to all three pro's he wants a single plane swing, all three decided to try and change his swing to a dual plane.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
And yes the advice from a member was better than the pro's and free too.

 

[Lawrence22]

Wish I had a baldy notion what the difference is between a 1 and 2 plane swing, then I might be able to make head nor tail of this.

 

[Matty]

When you went for the lessons what did you ask for?

It sound's like you were after a little coaching to squeeze something more from the swing you had rather than lessons on how to hit the ball in the most efficient way.

Now I understand completely that there is no-one that executes the 'perfect' golf swing but amateurs can always be taught ways to get a little closer to it.

It's taken me 3 years to get from hitting it straight and all over the place, to straight and reasonably accurate because of about 10 little changes to what I was doing naturally.

I'd say you need to decide what you want from your golf and your lessons. If you are hitting it straight and you're happy with that why did you have the lessons?

 

[crux]

I find things like this remarkable. An amateur player goes to not 1, not 2 but 3 different pros, they all tell him the same thing and you still dont take the hint. Then to top it off you ask another amateur player who in 5 mins tells you to do the exact opposite of what 3 qualified professionals have told you to do and you think you have found the answer.

Too many people think a pro will give a quick fix and you will instantly start hitting better shots, but these things take time and practice. I am a firm believer in you have to get worse before you get better. I bet the pro never said these changes would be easy but what he is trying to do is give you a swing that will hit better shots. I dont think its a case of the pros teaching a generic swing but obviously they are all in agreement in the direction your swing needs to go in order to get better.

Its probably reasons like the above that the average handicap hasnt changed. I.e taking a lesson, no instant success, asking a mate for advice, going with his advice instead of that of the pro etc etc etc.......

I cant remember where i read it but i once saw a pro advertising lessons for £1000 for half an hour or 10 lessons for £100. Stating "if you expect a miracle you need to pay for it"

My advice is to pick one of those pros and talk to him, tell him what you want from the game and then commit to working with his changes. You WILL get better if you work with his advice.

Pro's are not gods, a lot of them are totally naff teachers and will only try to make you swing the way they think is correct or normal. Blindly doing what a pro tells you to do without understanding why and what's it leading to is not even remotely the route to success that most of us hackers think it is.

caslad81, the right pro for you is out there, you just need to spend effort finding them. But any time you mention one plane swing, or Stack and Tilt or any other 'method' that your interested in then most pro's will instantly think, oh no another internet techno swing numpty. Unless they are into that method!

Keep looking and keep swinging left!

 

[surefire]

During all of this, did you ever speak to the pro about your concerns, or did you just keep moving from pro to pro?

If you told the pro what you wanted, they may have then worked to this, or explained why they think it's a bad idea.

Either way you'd either know what you're getting or could decide to speak to other pros.

 

[Alex1975]

During all of this, did you ever speak to the pro about your concerns, or did you just keep moving from pro to pro?

If you told the pro what you wanted, they may have then worked to this, or explained why they think it's a bad idea.

Either way you'd either know what you're getting or could decide to speak to other pros.

Why would you bother doing this when there are randoms on the driving range and forums?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Sounds to me like you have two issues. Communication and attitude.

When you go to see a pro, it's because you want to improve right? I can't see the point going otherwise. The thing is, when you're average pro sees you swinging like Matt Kuchar, what do you expect him to do. Any pro worth his money will see your faults and tell you how to fix them - it is just about impossible to expect them to teach you how to improve your unique natural swing. It goes against everything they have trained to do.

So they will explain to you the issues and help you to work o them. For that to work you need to be 100% comitted and if I'm honest, it doesn't sound like you are. Can you honestly say, hand on heart that during every practice session and every round you have stuck religiously to what you have been taught? From what I've read, and the fact that a year later your original swing is still your natural one that you haven't been true to either yourself or your pro.

If you weren't happy aftera couple of months you should have said something. Even if you spend a whole lesson discussing it which I did last year. You both need to understand the goal, if he's teaching you one thing and your mind is set on another it will never work.