ManinBlack
Tour Winner
Get off my thread! The reason for starting this one was to make the point that very few people time searches properly, nothing else. That's why I started a new thread.
It's 5 minutes, full stop.
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FairwayDodger
Money List Winner
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
If this thread continues to be hijacked and matters relating to the other closed thread in the lounge discussed , instead of the OP , then I will have to start dishing out infractions
25 posts have been binned in the tidy up,
25 posts have been binned in the tidy up,
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guest100718
Guest
fair point. although I think a lot give up after 2 or 3 mins anyway. I don't use a stopwatch but will note the time on my phone , I think that's probably acceptable for club level golf.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
And is that when you tend to "find" it?
When people "find" it like that they prefer not and tend not to need any assistance.
I'm not fishing, it's you who has said that the rules are not an exact science and then have gone on to state that you interpret them and then referenced scrapings.
I want to know why you feel the need to interpret any rules and so have given an example of a scrape and want to know your interpretation of it, so would you ask for relief or give relief for what I described?
Interpret it for me.
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
Can we start a new thread for scrapings please
Fed up this thread going off piste
Cheers
Fed up this thread going off piste
Cheers
fundy
Ryder Cup Winner
No, it's in direct association with him stating that rule changes are being made due to slow play and that rules are not an exact science and need to be interpreted (when does the time start looking for a ball) and then gave reference to another one being scrapes, it's all relevant and called debating the comments as they arise. I can't see why your fed up with what is a simple conversation in response to his comments towards the subject matter within the OP.
Colin L
Tour Winner
Found it! After searching fruitlessly through 2 months of threads in this forum for one started by Tashyboy, I realised thanks to Phil's reference to it that his thread was in the Lounge which I don't normally read. So not necessarily asleep at the time, but close to it today after reading a few pages. 
There's no way I'm commenting on a thread that was closed to stop further comments!
To the matter in hand. Is is a matter of fact whether your ball is in play because you have found it within 5 minutes of searching, or is lost because 5 minutes of searching have elapsed and it has not been found. In competition, it seems to me important that a player can be sure of the facts by keeping an eye on how long he has been searching and knowing when to stop.
I don't find it difficult to know when a search starts. There is a clear difference between a player walking straight towards the area where his ball might be and then starting to scout around looking for it. For instance, I watch for when he leaves his trolley or dumps his bag and starts walking around staring at the ground. It's not a bad clue!
As rulefan says, few searches seem to extend to 5 minutes. Few of the timings I start reach 3 minutes before the ball is found or the player gives up. With the few that do go beyond 3, I'll usually start heading towards the group in the buggy to let them know when 4 minutes have elapsed and more often than not don't even reach them before they've given up. In the last 3 years I can recollect two occasions on which I've stopped a search because 5 minutes are up.
There's no way I'm commenting on a thread that was closed to stop further comments!To the matter in hand. Is is a matter of fact whether your ball is in play because you have found it within 5 minutes of searching, or is lost because 5 minutes of searching have elapsed and it has not been found. In competition, it seems to me important that a player can be sure of the facts by keeping an eye on how long he has been searching and knowing when to stop.
I don't find it difficult to know when a search starts. There is a clear difference between a player walking straight towards the area where his ball might be and then starting to scout around looking for it. For instance, I watch for when he leaves his trolley or dumps his bag and starts walking around staring at the ground. It's not a bad clue!
As rulefan says, few searches seem to extend to 5 minutes. Few of the timings I start reach 3 minutes before the ball is found or the player gives up. With the few that do go beyond 3, I'll usually start heading towards the group in the buggy to let them know when 4 minutes have elapsed and more often than not don't even reach them before they've given up. In the last 3 years I can recollect two occasions on which I've stopped a search because 5 minutes are up.
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ManinBlack
Tour Winner
In my experience the full 5 minutes is often used where the searching players have waved through the match behind.
A couple of years ago I played in an Open with a guy who has been playing for a few years. He was lost in the right rough &, after 5 minutes went back to the tee. He waited until the match behind had teed off & then played his 3 off the tee. Walking back down the fairway he found his original ball, which had ricocheted off a tree & gone into the left hand rough. He was starting to address the ball when I pointed out that he had certainly had his 5 minutes & probably 5 minutes more. And this from an experienced golfer.
A couple of years ago I played in an Open with a guy who has been playing for a few years. He was lost in the right rough &, after 5 minutes went back to the tee. He waited until the match behind had teed off & then played his 3 off the tee. Walking back down the fairway he found his original ball, which had ricocheted off a tree & gone into the left hand rough. He was starting to address the ball when I pointed out that he had certainly had his 5 minutes & probably 5 minutes more. And this from an experienced golfer.
rulefan
Tour Winner
We only allow players to play through if a) the group behind are waiting and b) it is clear that the player is intent on taking his full five minutes and there is more than about a minute available to him.
With properly space time intervals, playing through usually slows down the whole of the following field.
The only exception is for two balls (where there has been a no show say) following a three ball.
sawtooth
Tour Winner
Got to be less than 5 minutes or less its the rules after all.
Anyone that takes longer is obviously cheating unless they just took up golf, then its a plain rule breach.
I think when people play in comps with their regular groups (as some clubs allow you to do) these are the sort of rule areas that are likely be abused IMO. A grey area because most people don't measure 5 mins and if you are too pally with your PP's then you may not want to tell them that their time is up.
Anyone that takes longer is obviously cheating unless they just took up golf, then its a plain rule breach.
I think when people play in comps with their regular groups (as some clubs allow you to do) these are the sort of rule areas that are likely be abused IMO. A grey area because most people don't measure 5 mins and if you are too pally with your PP's then you may not want to tell them that their time is up.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Garbage, it's the exact opposite, people are sometimes nervous to speak up to strangers as they are unsure how the stranger will react, as mentioned many times on this forum, as in my case with mates/regular pp etc there's no issue and certainly no worries about picking them up on rules.
You do realise you are questioning peoples integrity when you spout this rubbish without any evidence.
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guest100718
Guest
i'd agree with sawtooth, I a know a few groups who are generoous with the rules to say the least, and it would be no stretch to see them allow a ball found after 5 mins to be played.
sawtooth
Tour Winner
Another likely one would be the unreasonable doubt scenario when a ball flies in the general direction of a hazard. How many "cliques" would say no sorry mate not 100% sure about it going into the water - lost ball instead?
I know it's off topic a bit but mixing people up in comps is a good idea IMO.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Yup, my pp saw an old fella the other day pick up his ball from the rough to identify it, then place it back down. Plays with the same group all the time, I cringe at what other things they get up to.
sawtooth
Tour Winner
Steady Paul, a) I respect your opinion please respect mine b) I am making general points , this isn't aimed at any particular individuals.
ManinBlack
Tour Winner
Sorry, Paul, but I think sawtooth has a point. I would have no hesitation in pointing out that a player is out of time & I've done it. Conversely, I've seen groups of friends being over generous when defining rabbit scrapes & "virtually certain" situations. There are a number of members at my club who are suspected of being quite Liberal in their interpretation of the rules.
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Deleted member 16999
Guest
And all the above proves my point, 4 supposed examples/hearsay of people breaking rules or being generous with mates and not one of you said you or your mate or club did anything about it, all whispers and rumour.
I firmly believe that I, like Bill, would step in if I believed I saw something.
Plenty of times on here we have people asking for advice as they'd witnessed something and didn't say anything.
Easy to tar one group with the same brush.
Unfortunately Sean you've answered your own point, I would respect your opinion if it was specific and backed by fact, it's the point that you are generalising is my issue.
I firmly believe that I, like Bill, would step in if I believed I saw something.
Plenty of times on here we have people asking for advice as they'd witnessed something and didn't say anything.
Easy to tar one group with the same brush.
Unfortunately Sean you've answered your own point, I would respect your opinion if it was specific and backed by fact, it's the point that you are generalising is my issue.
