Is WHS Index fair when playing at an “Away Club”in singles Open Events?

[3offTheTee]

Perhaps I am wrong but prior to WHS there could be 2 CSS for Home and Away players in singles Open Events

I play many Opens at other courses and hve been checking my best 8 from 20 scores.

11 of my last 20 Counting scores have been away from my home course. Some difficult courses including Aberdovey, Royal St Davids. Fairmont St Andrews. The Roxburgh. Only 2 of the 11 are counting compared with 6 from 9 whilst playing my home course.


This is not a complaint but a fact and from the statistics quoted it appears playing at an away course is a huge disadvantage. From the 11 courses played I had only played one before.

Has anybody else checked their statistics and anybody have any thoughts please?

 

[SammmeBee]

Sounds about right to me…..

 

[jim8flog]

I think this is the whole point of slope adjustments.

Play away and you handicap gets adjusted according to difficulty of the course ( I know rulefan does not like that opinion but it is the simplest way to put it).

CSS for away players was never truly indicative as it encompassed a wide range of players some of whom might find the course easier compared to their home club and some harder. It also assumed that away players were strangers to the course but we get many who played the course fairly often, not only Opens but interclub matches as well.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Perhaps I am wrong but prior to WHS there could be 2 CSS for Home and Away players in singles Open Events

I play many Opens at other courses and hve been checking my best 8 from 20 scores.

11 of my last 20 Counting scores have been away from my home course. Some difficult courses including Aberdovey, Royal St Davids. Fairmont St Andrews. The Roxburgh. Only 2 of the 11 are counting compared with 6 from 9 whilst playing my home course.


This is not a complaint but a fact and from the statistics quoted it appears playing at an away course is a huge disadvantage. From the 11 courses played I had only played one before.

Has anybody else checked their statistics and anybody have any thoughts please?

Playing at an away course was a huge disadvantage prior to WHS and it is now because you are unfamiliar with the course and will more than likely make some errors that you wouldn't if you played the course more regularly.

I played an Open at Penrith recently and wasted 4 shots through overclubbing, airmailed a green with an approach cost me 2 shots and driving through 2 dogleg cost me another 2.

Not good when you only have 3 shots to start with ?

Needless to say not in my best 8.

 

[rulefan]

( I know rulefan does not like that opinion but it is the simplest way to put it).

In differentiation between courses surely Course Rating is the more important figure. Under CONGU a home scratch player who only played at Carnoustie would have a big advantage over an away scratch player who normally plays at Royal Municipal, regardless of slope. But I do agree that slope may and should have a significant effect.

 

[KenL]

Is an away PCC not calculated separately now as an away CSS used to be.

I've never seen the PCC change so far.

 

[patricks148]

Don't know all my good scores are from away course opens.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Is an away PCC not calculated separately now as an away CSS used to be.

I've never seen the PCC change so far.

no.

one PCC is generated

 

[doublebogey7]

It's opposite for me from my 11 away scores in the last 20, 5 are counting scores. Not sure though that statistacally you can glean anything from just 20 rounds.

 

[doublebogey7]

In differentiation between courses surely Course Rating is the more important figure. Under CONGU a home scratch player who only played at Carnoustie would have a big advantage over an away scratch player who normally plays at Royal Municipal, regardless of slope. But I do agree that slope may and should have a significant effect.

Not sure what you are trying to say here, under CONGU you had SSS so I don't see how anything has changed under WHS for scratch players.

 

[SammmeBee]

Not sure what you are trying to say here, under CONGU you had SSS so I don't see how anything has changed under WHS for scratch players.

CSS always went up massively in Scratch Opens so you’d always have extra shots plus buffer to play with for handicap purposes….

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Perhaps I am wrong but prior to WHS there could be 2 CSS for Home and Away players in singles Open Events

I play many Opens at other courses and hve been checking my best 8 from 20 scores.

11 of my last 20 Counting scores have been away from my home course. Some difficult courses including Aberdovey, Royal St Davids. Fairmont St Andrews. The Roxburgh. Only 2 of the 11 are counting compared with 6 from 9 whilst playing my home course.


This is not a complaint but a fact and from the statistics quoted it appears playing at an away course is a huge disadvantage. From the 11 courses played I had only played one before.

Has anybody else checked their statistics and anybody have any thoughts please?

10 of my last 20 are Opens, 4 of them are in my 8, 2 of them are my best 2.

You're (generally) at a disadvantage in an Open simply because you're playing away, the old CSS acknowledged that in your handicap, though not the result, I thought the double CSS in Opens was a ridiculous introduction when it came in, and was largely responsible for me keeping my handicap down, I knew I was almost certain to be getting a couple of "extra" shots when it came to working out my handicap.

What WHS has done is now adjust your handicap to the course, which means the result changes as well as your handicap, I'm not convinced that is a positive move

 

[3offTheTee]

In differentiation between courses surely Course Rating is the more important figure. Under CONGU a home scratch player who only played at Carnoustie would have a big advantage over an away scratch player who normally plays at Royal Municipal, regardless of slope. But I do agree that slope may and should have a significant effect.

Sorry RF but I tend to disagree as Carnoustie has very few/no Opens for the average golfer and at 145 has one of the highest ratings. Caz who is or very near to having an elitist handicap and my I high teens are cases in point. SP who played @ Penrith, a far less challenging course than his home course Silloth ‘lost‘ shots because of lack of local knowledge. The position in all cases would probably be different if we had a local caddy with us.

However I do feel The WHS system is excellent just not when playing a course for the first time in an Open

 

[Backache]

In differentiation between courses surely Course Rating is the more important figure. Under CONGU a home scratch player who only played at Carnoustie would have a big advantage over an away scratch player who normally plays at Royal Municipal, regardless of slope. But I do agree that slope may and should have a significant effect.

My understandingand I may be wrong is that for the Scratch player there has been little change in handicaps between the different course as Course rating is very similair to SSS. It was the higher handicaps that have been primarily affected as the Slope rating affect them (and me).

 

[louise_a]

I played in an open on friday, albeit not a singles open, course rating .3 over par and slope 119, so on the face of it not a difficult course, however there are so many blind hole on top of a hill including 3 par 3s where you cannot see the green that it very much favours home players, I wouldnt fancy my chances playing in a single event there.

Just checked my last 20 scores, 8 are on away courses, just 1 of which is in my best 8.