Is Violence Ever the Answer?

[User62651]

So he should have waited for the other guy to attack him?
Phil this is the real world,turning the cheek could have resulted in him getting attacked.

He had several mates with him to assist. Defend yourself yes but it's 2018, you need to be careful with what constitutes self defence, a left right combo to the head (not specified) to put someone on the floor is more than self defence. Say the big guy goes down and smacks his head, easy fractured skull, weeks off work, assault lawsuit etc etc.
Just need to be very measured and careful in any physical response to being harassed.

 

[Hobbit]

Is it ever? Sometimes. In this instance, no. The escalation was done by the guy that could handle himself. Size has very little to do with being able to look after yourself.

in my early teens I was on the receiving end of a shove shove shove situation. I took the first swing, and broke the lad’s jaw, and subsequently a 4 hour operation was needed by the aggressive bully. The Police, nor the court, saw it as self defence. Thankfully a history of being bullied mitigated the court’s sentence to a suspended sentence but I was lucky.

It also got me a reputation of being a hard case, and every young gunslinger wanted a pop. My stock answer to the many situations that arose was “you get a free hit.” And I never fought again.

In this instance, your mate could have rang for a taxi, or even had the pre-booked one brought forward.

 

[bobmac]

So to sum up

Bully picks a fight on a little guy
Bully gets a fight
Bully loses

 

[Lord Tyrion]

So to sum up

Bully picks a fight on a little guy
Bully gets a fight
Bully loses

As a little guy, I like your summary.

Back to the scenario, really poor from the door staff, no longer bouncers 😁. They are supposed to be trained to identify and prevent issues such as this. Sounds like the situation was an obvious one to spot so they should have ejected the local early on.

 

[Blue in Munich]

In a bar last night with some colleagues, a brash local took exception to one of our party. My colleague had genuinely done nothing, we'd not been there long enough when the first incident occurred. The guy is good looking and I don't think the local liked the fact he was attracting some female attention. Plus my colleague is really quiet, about 5'8" and slight whereas the local was 6'4", obnoxious and massive - so a classic bully situation. It was all handbags and intimidation and many situations orchestrated by the local were either ignored or we split them up. The bouncers warned the local a few times but we got the impression they knew him. We considered leaving but there was no where open nearby (that we knew of) and our pre paid mini bus that was taking us an hour or so home was unable to pick us up earlier.

As we were about to go the local barged into my colleague and pushed him shouting aggressively in his face then tried to grab him. At that my colleague delivered a left right combination which saw the local go down like a felled redwood. Neither the bouncers or the other locals did anything, just picked the local up. We had a word with the head doorman in case police would be called but he said they wouldn't and that they were well aware it was self defence and cctv would have captured incident anyway. It was weird. On the way home my colleague was gutted. Apparently when younger he'd been a decent level boxer, but avoided conflict at all costs and had never been in a fight out of the ring. We reassured him that he had no choice and it would likely have ended up in him getting hurt and us all fighting had he not acted. He wasn't so sure. Is violence ever the answer?

Yep I read what you posted but as hard as it is you just can’t react with violence when someone is antagonising you - just walk away , go to another pub if that’s what it takes and yes it is a pain but it will be even worse if your mate ends up being the one in trouble with the police because he reacted - it’s the old adage it takes a bigger man to walk away from the situation

But ultimately the bouncers should have thrown him out - 2 hours of antagonising behaviour and they didn’t do anything ?

Don’t have the right to “teach someone a lesson “ - the harsh reality is the guys response was physical violence that would have meant him being charged with assault because a combination of punches putting a man on the ground isn’t self defence - people don’t have the right to give a “measured show of force” - that’s what the police are for.

Turning the cheek is the only response if the guy isnt physically attacking the person - that’s the harsh reality

He clearly wasn't just being antagonised; he'd been barged into, pushed, shouted at aggressively and then had an attempt made to grab him. He was the victim of an assault. And having been put in that situation by the other bloke, and still potentially in the process of being assaulted, he reacted to defend himself in the manner in which he'd been trained, in self defence.

Absolutely no problem for me with what your mate did under the circumstances as described, and had I been called to deal with it the local would have got short shrift from me. The fact that neither the other locals nor the bouncers piled into your mate afterwards speaks volumes.

 

[User101]

I'm no going away to read 3 pages of replies but reading the OP, we only have one side of the story but if this side is accurate as it happened I'd say well done to your colleague but like him I try and avoid violence because nowadays it can turn pear shaped very, very quickly and next thing murder charges are being brought, quite frankly just not worth it.

 

[Smiffy]

Here we go again.....

 

[bladeplayer]

I'm no going away to read 3 pages of replies but reading the OP, we only have one side of the story but if this side is accurate as it happened I'd say well done to your colleague but like him I try and avoid violence because nowadays it can turn pear shaped very, very quickly and next thing murder charges are being brought, quite frankly just not worth it.

Great sumation here .
Its a tough call as its never the answer . Up to 2 year ago ive worked pub/club security for 23 years. So ive witnessd alot of this ... firstly ...
Bouncers were at fault here for letting this get this far . Sometimes stuff just blows up and u react to it . This was simmering and they were aware so it should never have gotten to this . Moments of madness 1 unlucky punch 1unlucky fall . Lives ruined forever ..
Never the answer but the older u get the easier it is to see this

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Great sumation here .
Its a tough call as its never the answer . Up to 2 year ago ive worked pub/club security for 23 years. So ive witnessd alot of this ... firstly ...
Bouncers were at fault here for letting this get this far . Sometimes stuff just blows up and u react to it . This was simmering and they were aware so it should never have gotten to this . Moments of madness 1 unlucky punch 1unlucky fall . Lives ruined forever ..
Never the answer but the older u get the easier it is to see this

I know from meeting you that you've experience in door work and you spoke about dealing with this sort of idiot. I can see how the smaller guy was backed into a corner so to speak and felt was left with no other option but a bad fall, or underlying medical condition and several lives in tatters.

 

[user2010]

Yes........sometimes.:thup:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Never punched anyone and never been punched (other than once in a 5-a-side game when one of the oppo got p'd off with me - prob with me being a bit bitey with a tackle - and punched me on my shoulder blade - hurt him more than me ) I wouldn't know of the circumstances that might merit it. But I suspect that the occasions when it is the right thing to do are fewer than the occasions when anger, hurt and irrationality take over.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Yes, havent you heard Kenny Rodger's "Coward of the county"?

 

[USER1999]

Some peoples idea of a good night out ends in a fight. It is what they want. In this case, someone else could have been the victim. They weren't, that is good. Yep sometimes violence is the right outcome.

 

[Robster59]

Looking at the background to this, the big guy was up for a fight no matter what. This should absolutely have been nipped in the bud by the bouncers before it got to this stage but I think the fella got what he deserved.

 

[Simbo]

If the story is as you say it is then yes, violence sometimes is the answer,
As soon as someone lays a hand on you and you hit them it’s self defence.
Sure he could have fell banged his head and died, but so could you if he had done it to you.
It’s better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I think that I would always walk-away unless there is no walk-away option and physical intervention is required to protect myself or others with me.