Is this shot legal?

The club isn't being swung towards the ball, it's being pushed - that in itself points to it possibly breaking the Rule
Plus the chances of double-hitting are magnified hugely....

Not something I'd try, legal or not.
 
Imurg said:
The club isn't being swung towards the ball, it's being pushed - that in itself points to it possibly breaking the Rule
Plus the chances of double-hitting are magnified hugely....

Not something I'd try, legal or not.
Click to expand...

Try it, you'll be surprised. If you lift the club after impact like you would in a normal swing you hit the ball every time. You just use a pop technique like snedeker putting. Works a charm.
 
I was going to mention the fact that it was posted on another forum and the guy sent it to the R&A who came back saying it was illegal but saw it was raised earlier in this thread.

If you want something that works from tight lies, etc then the Dave Stockton unconscious scoring method works.

Apart from anything else, would you really want to be seen playing a hockey shot??
 
MGL said:
I was going to mention the fact that it was posted on another forum and the guy sent it to the R&A who came back saying it was illegal but saw it was raised earlier in this thread.

If you want something that works from tight lies, etc then the Dave Stockton unconscious scoring method works.

Apart from anything else, would you really want to be seen playing a hockey shot??
Click to expand...

Would confuse your partner if you get it to three feet with a hockey shot
 
Tried this in the lounge with some airflow balls last night. Interesting.

No chance of duffing or thinning unlike a normal chip.

I also found it was just as effective using a normal grip and set up and just sliding the club backwards and forwards like a proper swing but keeping the club in contact with the carpet. That also felt easier too.

I think for this to work for real the fairway/fringe would need to be very closely cut and firm, in which case I'd probably be putting anyway.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
No idea if it's legal but doesn't look like it should be. Besides, to me if you're gonna do that you might as well get a chipper as you have clearly given up. In any case, try that on the fairways in this country most of the year, your club will be stacked with mud and water before it hits the ball
Click to expand...

Exactly! At our course it would be pretty academic whether the shot is illegal or not.....by the time the club got anywhere near the ball there would be 6 inches of mud in front of the club face and the ball would go an even shorter distance than it does presently with a 'usual' shot.....
 
Okay, I totally accept that the rules book says the ball must not be "pushed, scraped or spooned" but I can find no definition in the rule book for what these terms mean.

Further confusion reigns in my mid now as a push shot is one that goes straight but to the right if the target for RH players - so that shot is pushed, Also, apparently is seems that a 3 wood is sometimes referred to as a spoon so if you hit the ball with your 3 wood have you just spooned it?!?

I realise I'm being a pedantic idiot on this but stating in the rules what you cannot do in ambiguous terms and then not clarifying what those terms actually mean - well it's no wonder the rules are confusing! Can someone tell me what these three terms actually mean?
 
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Matty said:
I realise I'm being a pedantic idiot on this but stating in the rules what you cannot do in ambiguous terms and then not clarifying what those terms actually mean - well it's no wonder the rules are confusing! Can someone tell me what these three terms actually mean?
Click to expand...

Well, I can tell you when they first appeared in the rules - 1888 R&A rules (rule 4 The ball must be fairly struck at, not pushed, scraped, or spooned, under penalty of the loss of the hole. Any movement of the club which is intended to strike the ball is a stroke... and the term was believed coined by Royal Wimbledon Golf Club in 1883.

When terms are not assigned specific definitions in the rules you use the accepted meaning of the term, with most terms having some clarification within the rules over time.
As has been pointed out, we are advised that "In order to strike the ball fairly, it must be swung at with the clubhead. If the ball is moved by any other method, it has been pushed, scraped or spooned.
If a ball is fairly struck at, there is only momentary contact between the clubhead and the ball..."
This tells us that for the ball the be fairly struck, the clubhead will already be in motion when it makes momentary contact with the ball.
If this isn't the case then it's not fairy struck; if this is the case then, in the absence of any specific ruling to the contrary, it is fairly struck at - an example of this would be the decision that tells us that a player using a club in the manner of a billiard cue and striking the ball with the club head (as opposed to another one which deals with using the end of the shaft) is considered a push and therefore in Breach of rule 14 (even though it may not be a push in the sense that the club head is moving, and the ball is only momentarily in contact with the ball etc.

An example of spooned used in Rules Workshops would be a player placing the club head 'under' a ball that's down amongst tree roots and pulls the club up to extricate the ball. It doesn't appear as a decision because the existing definition above makes it clear that it's not a legal shot - it fails on both the moving clubhead prior to impact, and the momentary impact 'tests'.

I hope this helps.
 
Reply from the R&A, I sent a link to the clip and had to confirm that it was not relation to a descision in a competition before they would answer. I explained that it was a tutorial clip online, I i did not want to waste time practising something if it was not a legal stroke, here is the reply..

Hi Steve,

Thank you for the clarification that your query does not relate to a competition.

This type of stroke is considered to be a scrape and would therefore be in breach of Rule 14-1 (see below).

I trust this is of some assistance.

Kind Regards
Claire

Rule 14-1 - Ball to be Fairly Struck At
The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not be pushed, scraped or spooned.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 14-1 or 14-2:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
 
Cheers for that Steve.

Interesting debate but I can see the R&A's take on this. It doesn't feel or look like a golf shot and scrape is a fair description. If it were legal and as effective as suggested I guess over the years people would have been doing it.
 
Love to see him play that on the boggy courses we've had this winter - he'd scrape up about a pound of mud and wouldn't make it to the ball.

Like a few have said; also looks like a big chance of a double hit...or maybe he'd hit it again while it's in the air, like that Irish stick game (Hurling?).

And it looks so damn ugly and inelegent!!
 
thanks for taking this up

it raises a large number of questions with regards to the question of 'what makes it a scrape?' when considering a number of situations that can occur, but that's only going to get clarified through a decision etc - the most obvious one being a straight forward putt with the clubhead in contact with the ground all the way through the use of a hybrid to chip where, again, the clubhead can be run along the ground both back and forward.
 
I am pretty sure this is the guy from the recent series of 'Big Break' on the golf channel... think this guy was runner up .... He used this shot on a number of the challenges and the match play etc....... they never said it was illegal !!
 
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