Is this fair ?

[richart]

On Sunday we played our first big board competition of the year. 145 players played the course set up exactly the same as the previous day when a big amateur competition, the Selborne Salver was played. Same tees, pin positions, rolled greens etc.

The couse was nothing like we have played on previously this year, with the greens firm and very fast. Previously holding and medium paced. To give an example I hit a forty yard sandwedge into the first hole which I thought I had left slightly short of the pin, only to find it twenty yards through the green.

This though is not what I am questioning as fair. The competition was won by a member that plays off scratch, but who had played two rounds in the 'Salver' the day before. He knew how the course was playing, probably had the lines on quite a few putts. Did this give him an unfair advantage over the rest of the field ? He won on count back, shot gross 66. which is obviously a great score, but did his knowledge of the course set up advantage influence the result.

As I said before the course was playing nothing like we have played this year, and the pin positions were as severe as you can get. The pin at the first from the fairway looked like it was off the green to the left. I personally three putted four of the first five greens getting used to the pace. Of the 145 members that played less than ten played to par or better, and the CSS was 71 compared to par of 69.

Interesting to know what forumers think, and I would mention that I have tried to state the facts, and not give my opinion. Just open for discussion.

 

[User20205]

It's really easy to catch those half wedges thin :rofl:

I agree, if some have played it the day before in a restricted comp the course should be changed. Pin positions changed, maybe greens not cut otherwise it's not a level playing field.

did you get 0.1 back Rich??

 

[richart]

It's really easy to catch those half wedges thin :rofl:

I agree, if some have played it the day before in a restricted comp the course should be changed. Pin positions changed, maybe greens not cut otherwise it's not a level playing field.

did you get 0.1 back Rich??

Yes, one shot outside the buffer zone. I did have a five foot downhill putt for birdie on the last, and missed it two feet left. At least I kept it on the green, as the pin was as near to the front as possible. I am sure there were a lot who putted off the green.

 

[JustOne]

I like fast greens - sounds great!

 

[Imurg]

Is this a similar setup to what we had a couple of years ago Rich..? The big comp that we played the day after..?
If so then it's a bit of an advantage to have played on a course so completely different to normal. Not outside the rules and he still had to play superbly well but a definite advantage.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I bet a lot of members enjoy playing the course as set up for the SS though and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[pbrown7582]

Maybe not completely fair but is the course not set up for the county comp like this every year?
And is it unusual not to have new pins cut for a board comp, I would imagine those at the end of the field would potential have had some odd bobbles near the hole after 2 days of heavy usage?

 

[Tiger]

At our course we have a lot of people who play the course on the Saturday and enter the medal in the Sunday so gain an advantage. That said the biggest problem with this scenario is that your practice putting green is tiny and doesn't reflect the course. If it did everyone could have got the speed of the greens before heading out. You would also have known the greens were firm and fast so wouldn't have thinned... sorry seen your perfect pitch run through the green

At the end of the day he's still got to hit the shots but yes in terms of your question he had an unfair advantage

 

[brendy]

Just unfortunate but everyone still has to put the ball in the hole, just one of those things.

 

[richart]

Is this a similar setup to what we had a couple of years ago Rich..? The big comp that we played the day after..?
If so then it's a bit of an advantage to have played on a course so completely different to normal. Not outside the rules and he still had to play superbly well but a definite advantage.

Yes Ian, pins in very similar positions. The one on the fifth was just where a certain forumer four putted from. The one on 18 was right at the front, so it was almost impossible to have an uphill putt. The course was in great condition as the greenkeeper tries to get it in peak condition for the amateurs. First time we played off the whites, and without the benefit of winter rules since last November. This week it is course maintenance.

Good point about the practice putting green Tiger. I never use it as it is no reflection on the pace of the real greens.

 

[richart]

Maybe not completely fair but is the course not set up for the county comp like this every year?
And is it unusual not to have new pins cut for a board comp, I would imagine those at the end of the field would potential have had some odd bobbles near the hole after 2 days of heavy usage?

Greens were fine, as they were rolled in the morning, You could not tell they had used the same pins the day before. No excuses there. The reason we get such a big turnout, 145 players, is that we all want to play the course as it is set up for the top boys.

 

[Foxholer]

I like fast greens - sounds great!

So do I. Just mot as a surprise on a course where they've previously been slow-to-average!

And I think the pins should have been changed, to make it 'fair. Surely there is more than 1 difficult position on any green.

BTW. It seems it's only Amateur comps that set up all tough, The positions I've seen for Pro events tend to have a few 'gettable' ones - to avoid too many complaints. I know of 1 green where the assessors said they they could only use one half of the green because the other half would be 'too hard''!

 

[scratch]

Sounds like sour grapes to me

 

[duncan mackie]

The reason we get such a big turnout, 145 players, is that we all want to play the course as it is set up for the top boys.

sort of answers the question 'why?; from there it's a relatively normal situation for most clubs through the year.

 

[CMAC]

So do I. Just mot as a surprise on a course where they've previously been slow-to-average!

And I think the pins should have been changed, to make it 'fair. Surely there is more than 1 difficult position on any green.

BTW. It seems it's only Amateur comps that set up all tough, The positions I've seen for Pro events tend to have a few 'gettable' ones - to avoid too many complaints. I know of 1 green where the assessors said they they could only use one half of the green because the other half would be 'too hard''!

its the way they do it, nothing about fear of complaints, They will have 6 easy pins, 6 medium and 6 hard, interspersed through the 18

 

[GOLFBALL_WHACKER_GUY]

If I remember right Rich at last years H4H at Blackmoor you played a round the day before. I Cant remember where you placed, but you didn't come first. Do you think that you playing the day before that event made any difference on the Monday?

Obviously I dont know if pin positions were changed between days, or if the greens were cut or not.

 

[One Planer]

Just unfortunate but everyone still has to put the ball in the hole, just one of those things.

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Couldn't put it better my self

 

[lyden]

As a member of my club I've seen every pin position they have to offer so as long as my range finder isn't faulty and they are in the marked position I don't see he had an advantage. I think you'll find most of the greens round the UK have firmed up regardless of what the greenkeeper does.

 

[richart]

If I remember right Rich at last years H4H at Blackmoor you played a round the day before. I Cant remember where you placed, but you didn't come first. Do you think that you playing the day before that event made any difference on the Monday?

Obviously I dont know if pin positions were changed between days, or if the greens were cut or not.

No I didn't play the day before, and if I had it I doubt it would have made any difference to my score as the course hadn't changed characteristics, and I am not good enough to take advantage. I was a perfect host ar the H4H day and ensured that I was just out of the prizes, two points behind the winner,

A scratch golfer, two 'practice' rounds the day before same pins, knowing the firmness of the greens.:mmm: His scores on the day before were low/mid 70's and he shot a 66 in our competition. Evidence of an advantage possibly ?

I am just stating the facts, and not saying that I thought it was unfair. It was a discussion in the Clubhouse, not by players that were just edged out, but by those like me well down the field. I did feel sorry for the member that lost out on count back though.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Arguably he may have a minimal advantage having seen the course but as others have said he still has to play well on the second day. Off scratch he's got nowhere to hide if he has a bad day. I would just applaud a great score and move on