Is he counting the grains of sand?
- Thread starter rulefan
- Start date
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
He had a referee give him the OK to do it and she consulted with the senior ref John Paramor before allowing him to do it.
Paramor came on the scene after Kuchar had hit the ball and confirmed the ruling.
Paramor came on the scene after Kuchar had hit the ball and confirmed the ruling.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Even in a waste area that’s improving your lie or intended line of your swing.
I am very surprised you can do that.
I am very surprised you can do that.
rulefan
Tour Winner
He was removing small loose impediments. No problem with that.
Colin L
Tour Winner
It does look bad, though. The smaller the loose impediment, the more sand you'll remove as well.
bobmac
Major Champion
What do we thnk, should he be allowed to do it?
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
Should he be allowed...? - No
Is he allowed? - Yes.
Doesn't seem right and doesn't look good but if the refs have allowed it...........
Is he allowed? - Yes.
Doesn't seem right and doesn't look good but if the refs have allowed it...........
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
At what point does a small loose impediment become a grain of sand?
Will we see tour refs carrying sieves in the future?
Will we see tour refs carrying sieves in the future?
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
Does it matter what we think?
The Match Referee and Tournament Referee were both OK with it and they were in situ. His PP's were equally unconcerned.
End of story for me.
bobmac
Major Champion
rulefan
Tour Winner
How would you prevent it?
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
Sorry, I didn't mean to be dismissive
My point is that where a Rules decision has been made by officials on the spot with a live view of the player's actions then there is nothing to discuss.
Particularly as the officials will, most likely, have a far greater knowledge of the Rules than the vast majority of us.
If Kuchar had acted without the knowledge and approval of the officials then I would be concerned.
Crow
Crow Person
"Play the ball as it lies, play the course as you find it, and if you cannot do either, do what is fair."
There several rules where this basic principle is amended, but to my mind what's going on here isn't one of them.
There several rules where this basic principle is amended, but to my mind what's going on here isn't one of them.
D
Deleted member 25172
Guest
You can literally see how the lie improves for every digging with his fingers that he does as it not only removes the supposedly loose impediments but also quite a significant amount of sand, so it seems to me he’s stretching the rule to the limit.
Would it be too much to ask from the refs after his 10th dig or so to actually have a look at the loose impediments he’s removing?
Would it be too much to ask from the refs after his 10th dig or so to actually have a look at the loose impediments he’s removing?
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I'm not a rule maker but Crow's post works for me.
Not sure that Kooch is being entirely "fair".
But, as said before, according to the rules and officials he's ok.
But it doesn't look good.
But at least his ball didn't run over a bug.....
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
IMO, no. IMO, it's contrary to the spirit of the game.
If it was me, I'd just hit the ball. But he's playing for rather more money than our weekly £1.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Don’t think he needs the money!
It’s more how to lose what reputation he has left.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
Beats me how it can damage his reputation when he was acting in full view of a Match Referee who approved his actions and with the subsequent confirmation of the Tournament Referee.
Unless, of course, due to other incidents some people are determined to trash him by ignoring the facts.
After all my last golfing hero, Seve, was pretty good at using the Rules to his advantage and, by the way, was notoriously tight (imagine him in Caddygate) but I don't recall too many having a dig at his reputation.
rulefan
Tour Winner
So how exactly would you word a rule to identify 'fairness'.
Isn't fairness simply in the eye of 'the hard done by' ?
Crow
Crow Person
Not my problem, I'm merely quoting what used to be written on the first page of the rules, although after a quick scan of the 2019 rules it seems to have disappeared...
(I know the next line was "But to do what is fair, you need to know the rules of golf")
I still think this epitomises all that's wrong in modern golf, looking for every last advantage ((especially in terms of clubs/equipment
) no matter what that might do to the original spirit of the game. And yes, I am a dinosaur living in the past.
