Is 90k pay middle class

[Neilds]

Do you own assets such as property and shares that gives you an income of £50,000 or more whilst that capital continues to grow?
If you died tomorrow, would your estate be £4 million or more?
Those are the sorts of amounts that I would consider might put a person in a different role in the economy as an owner of wealth. Such a person may choose to work as well, but their ownership of wealth is then significant enough to have them performing another role of ownership in the economy.

I shall assume the answer is "no" and that your decent income is dependent on the work that you do. Well done by the way. I enjoy when you post about stuff you have done.

In my view you are working class like the vast vast majority of people.

Historically working class was only manual, semi skilled labourers. As soon as you became office bound or gained a skill, you became middle class.

 

[Mudball]

Absolutely. Companies get their pound of flesh when you are in that territory, I've seen it happen to friends and relatives. Interestingly, each of these in the heady heights pulled away in later years, deciding that the stress was not worth it.

Nobody forces people into those situations though, they get there by choice.

Someone i know was on the cusp of 100k... He turned down a pay hike, because of how you lose your personal allowance. So someone at 115 was going to take home was not much greater than 100k or so. But it was twice the hassle

 

[PJ87]

Someone i know was on the cusp of 100k... He turned down a pay hike, because of how you lose your personal allowance. So someone at 115 was going to take home was not much greater than 100k or so. But it was twice the hassle

With all the overtime at the moment half of the control room is in this situation due to gaps in the roster (9 vacancies)

Last year I crept under (pension helpfully reduces your net taxable)

This year I've sailed past , but no childcare to lose this year so it's just going to work out paying HMRC a tax bill. You can take home less or you can just pay HMRC the difference. All the overtime I'm doing from now is 42% taxed then I put 25% of that away to go towards the tax bill. Works out right

That said the EV salary sacrifice scheme that launches in April I'll prob look into when the Kia is paid off to lower My tax bill

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Absolutely. Companies get their pound of flesh when you are in that territory, I've seen it happen to friends and relatives. Interestingly, each of these in the heady heights pulled away in later years, deciding that the stress was not worth it.

Nobody forces people into those situations though, they get there by choice.

I agree, it is by choice. However there are jobs someone has to do.
My eldest daughter has just changed companies and got a pay rise. She does project management and was running 2 (yes 2) hospital PFI contracts in London. (one hopsital was the one a member of staff was pick axed in the back of his scull last year, that was one of her staff sat in her office there in the chair next to where she sat). The extra hours she had to do was immense. She had to be availabile on the phne 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 12 months of the year. Yes she was very well paid, but the stress was immense and toll on her personal life. But someone has to do it.
She now works for a different company, only managing 1 hospital PFI and gets the weekends off, quite often.
She enjoys the challenges her job brings, and is highly driven ( and no, she cannot have chidren biologically). She also got a pay rise, but of course 40% tax means that at least the government are seeing a nice return from her endevours.
Would I want her job and responsibilities?..Hell no, not for £90k or even £190k but she is doing a job someone has to do, and do well.

 

[Bdill93]

With all the overtime at the moment half of the control room is in this situation due to gaps in the roster (9 vacancies)

Last year I crept under (pension helpfully reduces your net taxable)

This year I've sailed past , but no childcare to lose this year so it's just going to work out paying HMRC a tax bill. You can take home less or you can just pay HMRC the difference. All the overtime I'm doing from now is 42% taxed then I put 25% of that away to go towards the tax bill. Works out right

That said the EV salary sacrifice scheme that launches in April I'll prob look into when the Kia is paid off to lower My tax bill

Ill have a job if the going rate is 60+k... can I commute from Worcester?

 

[PJ87]

Ill have a job if the going rate is 60+k... can I commute from Worcester?

You probably could! Some of my colleagues live in Peterborough, Bournemouth, Brighton, one even lives in Ireland

If we have a direct recruitment scheme again I'll let you know! We bloody need one

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I agree, it is by choice. However there are jobs someone has to do.
My eldest daughter has just changed companies and got a pay rise. She does project management and was running 2 (yes 2) hospital PFI contracts in London. (one hopsital was the one a member of staff was pick axed in the back of his scull last year, that was one of her staff sat in her office there in the chair next to where she sat). The extra hours she had to do was immense. Yes she was very well paid, but the stress was immense and toll on her personal life. But someone has to do it.
She now works for a different company, only managing 1 hospital PFI and gets the weekends off, quite often.
She enjoys the challenges her job brings, and is highly driven ( and no, she cannot have chidren biologically). She also got a pay rise, but of course 40% tax means that at least the government are seeing a nice return from her endevours.
Would I want her job and responsibilities?..Hell no, not for £90k or even £190k but she is doing a job someone has to do, and do well.

Someone has to do it but it can be better managed. She had to be available on the phone 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 12 months of the year. She now works for a different company, only managing 1 hospital PFI and gets the weekends off, quite often

The above quotes of yours are two different approaches to the same final outcome, managing a hospital PFI. One, in blue, sounds appallingly handled, presumably to save money. The one in red is better done. The one in blue doesn't have to be managed like that, the company in charge made that decision to run it that way. It sounds like bad management and your daughter did the right thing to get out.

 

[Orikoru]

Agree with those saying the whole 'class' thing is dead anyway. Tradesman would have been considered working class but these days a plumber or electrician probably makes more money than loads of 'middle class' roles. Who even cares anymore.

90k is a fantastic salary. My wife and I just about clear that combined.

 

[PJ87]

Agree with those saying the whole 'class' thing is dead anyway. Tradesman would have been considered working class but these days a plumber or electrician probably makes more money than loads of 'middle class' roles. Who even cares anymore.

90k is a fantastic salary. My wife and I just about clear that combined.

Due to the tax tho you and your wife will clear more though

 

[Voyager EMH]

Historically working class was only manual, semi skilled labourers. As soon as you became office bound or gained a skill, you became middle class.

Another excellent example of the social status view of class distinction.
This remains the majority view.
It is not my view.

My view is based on the need to work and ownership of wealth.
I believe my view is a current, relevant and modern view.

I believe the historic view is outdated.

I remain in a minority in this regard.
I hope views will change in the decades ahead.
Many here seem to be on the verge of doing so, but remain undecided as to what to replace the old view with.
I have given a very clear example of what that could be.

 

[Neilds]

Another excellent example of the social status view of class distinction.
This remains the majority view.
It is not my view.

My view is based on the need to work and ownership of wealth.
I believe my view is a current, relevant and modern view.

I believe the historic view is outdated.

I remain in a minority in this regard.
I hope views will change in the decades ahead.
Many here seem to be on the verge of doing so, but remain undecided as to what to replace the old view with.
I have given a very clear example of what that could be.

Real question, is the class system, and therefore where you fit into it important to you? From what you are saying, I think it might be and would like to hear your reasons for this.
I accept what you think is different to what I think about the class system and would be interested to hear your view.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Someone has to do it but it can be better managed. She had to be available on the phone 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 12 months of the year. She now works for a different company, only managing 1 hospital PFI and gets the weekends off, quite often

The above quotes of yours are two different approaches to the same final outcome, managing a hospital PFI. One, in blue, sounds appallingly handled, presumably to save money. The one in red is better done. The one in blue doesn't have to be managed like that, the company in charge made that decision to run it that way. It sounds like bad management and your daughter did the right thing to get out.

I don't disagree at all.
My point though was its a job someone has to do and the pressures and responsibilities match the level of pay.
I'm much happier taking £36k and paying 7.6% tax on it

 

[Voyager EMH]

Real question, is the class system, and therefore where you fit into it important to you? From what you are saying, I think it might be and would like to hear your reasons for this.
I accept what you think is different to what I think about the class system and would be interested to hear your view.

Thank you.
I fit fully into my view of working class.

I attach little "importance" to a social status view of a class system.
A bus driver and a surgeon perform a much needed public service and earn a wage. The role in the economy is the same.
Working class people is the role, if they are dependent on that wage.
Either of them might be middle class who have chosen to work. But they would have to have that significant amount of wealth that puts them in the middle class distinction of ownership.

 

[jim8flog]

What has any class got to do with income?

Somebody who has masses of capital but does not work or get a pension could be said to not have any income. Does make them classless?

 

[Voyager EMH]

What has any class got to do with income?

Somebody who has masses of capital but does not work or get a pension could be said to not have any income. Does make them classless?

A good point, but such a non-working person is likely to have an income from that masses of capital. If that were true then they fit my view of middle class very well.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Whatever people earn they tend to spend it. So someone on 150k would struggle if their income dropped to 100k. The other side of the coin if someone on 50k suddenly had a rise in income to 100k they would feel like a lottery winner.

Maybe for a while.

 

[chico]

Maybe for a while.

That's really my point.

 

[YandaB]

Upper Class - Royalty, nobility etc.

Middle Class - High wealth, very little or no need to work to maintain comfortable life.

Working class - dependent on work to maintain reasonable or comfortable life.

Some upper and middle class people choose to work, but that does not make them working class.
Some working class people will claim to be middle class, because of a fairly high income. But their lifestyle is dependent on that work.

You have to be holding a significant amount of wealth in order to be a different entity in the economy from working class.

A high earner and high spender is merely performing the same function as a few lower earners.

People have a view that class is about social status.
I see it as what role in the economy is being performed and not about social status.

But surely Royalty, nobility etc. is a social status, it's nothing to do with wealth? You only have 2 categories, working class and non-working class using your definitions.

 

[Pin-seeker]

That's really my point.

Apologies

 

[Tashyboy]

According to Wikipedia, there are 7 levels of class. Personally I don’t give a hoot which class other folk would want to put me in.