iPhone apps and use in comps.

[Canfordhacker]

It's an interesting conundrum that looks like it could easily get out of hand. Measuring elevation doesn't give a gradient - it just supports your ability to calculate that. If you really wanted to measure elevation at your ball, run forwards 150 yards, measure elevation again then do the maths, surely that's up to you. You may get lynched by the group behind, but your device hasn't broken the rules. Similarly an iphone doesn't measure wind speed. But it does give you the ability to tap into information in the public domain on the internet at weather stations nearby. But that info is in the public domain.
You "could" download a spirit level and use it on the greens, so i guess there's a rule breaker right there. But every container with liquid in it could be used as a spirit level, so let's also ban drinks on the course.

It highlights the difficulty in writing rules, but I'm afraid Hapless's course IMO have gone a little too far. I also agree with thje poster who said all GPS gadgets have the ability to read elevation - they may not choose to display, but they have the capability. QED they should all be banned. Ridiculous.

I'm going to carry on using mine, and if somebody wants to disqualify me then so be it.

 

[acesup1504]

Great post canfordhacker!

I currently use Freecaddie, so read around the subject quite alot to ensure if someone questioned me on the legality of it. I happy in myself that what i am using as DMD is legal.

I have no compass, software that measures gradient, Spirit level or anything else that is deemed illegal on the phone.
When the phone capability is switched off. Its just a Skycaddy by another name.

 

[SammmeBee]

Which got me thinking. Some electric trollies do have a 'live' temperature reading. Although this facility can be disabled, are you telling me that you cannot use this trolley for a competitive round? And would you have someone thrown out of a comp because their trolley has this facility, even if turned off?

Common sense, surely??

And it only happened this week too!!

 

[shagster]

reading these post, am i right in thinking that a compass is illegal, and if so why?, i do not need a gauge to tell me if i am hot or cold, four layers of clothing, or a polo shirt is a clue. i also think that gps devices etc should only be allowed in non competition, as competitions should be you against the course and the elements, or against your opponent. for friendly golf, especially away courses, gps is fun, and could be essential.

 

[SammmeBee]

reading these post, am i right in thinking that a compass is illegal, and if so why?

Yes it is illegal - it can help you see where the wind is coming from if you know the direction of the breeze and for grainy greens you will be able to tell which direction the grass is growing ie break of putt....

 

[Imurg]

the ruling about temp gauges is damn right stupid, i do not need a gauge to tell me if i am hot or cold, four layers of clothing, or a polo shirt is a clue.

The temperature thing is important. I've posted before - every 3 degrees F below 70, you lose a yard of distance. So knowing the exact temperature at any specific time could mean the difference between choosing a 7 or an 8 iron and being next to the pin or over the back of the green.


While my SG2.5 may be capable of giving me elevation readings, it is not set up to do it, nor is it currently able, nor could I enable it. The problem with any smartphone is that you have the ability to access applications that give this info. Whether you intend to use it is irrelevent. It is the ability to get it that is the problem.

And in this day and age you can't ban mobiles from the course - for Christ's sake we can't even ban them from the road where they can do serious damage without people flaunting the rules.

 

[shagster]

thanks for that information, but my s3 measures temp, but is always at least 1 deg different to my partners, but it does not take into account windchill etc.
played the other day, and it said 18 deg, but still had 3 layers on, due to an east wind
i know what you are saying about temp variations effecting ball travel, but i may look at temp, but only out of interest but i always go on gut feel, as i am nowhere good enough to let a few degrees alter my shot choice.
when its warmer i get a lot of roll on our downland course, so we always have to club down and often land short and roll on.
on a bright note, back on main tees thursday, and first comp on saturday, just hope for some sunshine

 

[Canfordhacker]

While my SG2.5 may be capable of giving me elevation readings, it is not set up to do it, nor is it currently able, nor could I enable it. ..snip.. It is the ability to get it that is the problem.

Imurg

I agree with much of what you say, but it is a question of degrees. You don't currently have the ability to hack your device and access the info that would give you elevation info (nor do you probably want it), but I'm sure there are people who could. Ergo the device is capable. The flip side - if I get somebody to change my (itunes)password on my iphone so I don't know it, do I render myself in the same position as you - needing to hack the device to download further applications, and therefore legal to use at Hapless' club as per original post?

I know it takes it to extremes, but I reiterate my point of using a drink bottle as a spirit level. If I have string, a tape measure and a protractor in my bag do I get disqualified because I have the tools to measure and calculate slope?

I can be trusted completely under the rules and by my partners and the rest of the field not to nudge my ball into a better lie in the rough, but not to not access elevation information and gain an advantage by applying complicated mathematics in my head on the spot to work out that the green is fifteen feet above me.

Crazy.

 

[Leftie]

My gut feeling on all this is semantics.

You have a bottle of water. It is designed as a bottle to carry water. If you then decide to use it as a spirit level to indicate the slope of a green then you, not the bottle, is in breach of the rules.

Alternatively, if you have a device that is designed and has the ability to provide information regarding slope, temperature or whatever information that does not comply, then that device is non-compliant and should not be used in competition.

Simples

 

[Canfordhacker]

You have a bottle of water. It is designed as a bottle to carry water. If you then decide to use it as a spirit level to indicate the slope of a green then you, not the bottle, is in breach of the rules.

Alternatively, if you have a device that is designed and has the ability to provide information regarding slope, temperature or whatever information that does not comply, then that device is non-compliant and should not be used in competition.

I would still contend that the device in the second scenario has not been designed to provide that specific information, but to provide access to information. I completely agree that in making a conscious chouice to use it for that purpose, I am in breach of the rules and get DQ'd. But I only want distance info, so don't use it for any other purpose.

Ironically the USGA web site link referred to earlier in the thread has an advert for an iphone app containing all the rules of golf next to the statement on electronic devices.

 

[Imurg]

Just proves that its all one big grey area that needs clarification -proper clarification not just "let a local rule decide"!

 

[viscount17]

the issue with respect to the S3 (and all other buggies/trolleys with similar capability) is surely one that the R&A/USGA has to address.
as stated above all of these are illegal for competition use, so one really has to question the integrity of the manufacturers of this equipment. It surely is no different than knowingly manufacturing and marketing non-conforming clubs.

really can't see the answer to this conundrum; the R&A virtually bottled it in the first place, certainly did not and have not foreseen the technological advances and will now find themselves caught between the proverbial rock. two options really - their 'easy' out would be a total ban on all such technology but imagine the howl that will cause (not to say the litigation); the alternative complete surrender, then next stop robot drivers?

 

[haplesshacker]

This has come through on the weekly emailed newsletter produced in conjunction with the golf club and Alliance golf.

"Finally, a word of warning and advice - it is illegal to use a GPS application on your mobile phone in competition rounds because it has the capability to do other things, such as a compass or wind speeds and directions. Even if you don’t use these other applications, the fact that your phone could be used in this way makes it illegal for competitions. And anyway, what are you doing with your phone on? I am delighted to tell you all the measuring devices we sell are OK to use. If you have any queries about measuring devices, contact us by .........."