i raked the bunker before i played

[bigslice]

i thought i had read somewhere you could do this. looked in the bunker and the chain (my away course is well classy) for the rake was around my ball. so when i lifted it out the way the bunker was a mess snake like. so i raked it and played. was i correct in doing so. or have i dreamt this rule up in my sleep

 

[BTatHome]

If you improved your lie, or that of a possible future stroke, then it's a penalty.

 

[pbrown7582]

The rule change was so you can take the bunker if retrieving the rake away from your ball to save time. You can't rake in and around your ball to improve lie or stance.

 

[louise_a]

you are allowed to rake the bunker before your shot if you are improving the condition of the course but not if you are improving your shot.
I dont know about improving a future shot as you dont know where you next shot will finish, that seems a bit strange to me.

 

[Foxholer]

Check this video.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Ball-in-Hazard.aspx

 

[BTatHome]

I dont know about improving a future shot as you dont know where you next shot will finish, that seems a bit strange to me.

decisions .... There are lots of them, and a good read if a little sad/bored/interested in knowing more about rules.

 

[bigslice]

i knew i hadnt dreamt it and believe i was correct as i was caring for the course

 

[BTatHome]

i thought i had read somewhere you could do this. looked in the bunker and the chain (my away course is well classy) for the rake was around my ball. so when i lifted it out the way the bunker was a mess snake like. so i raked it and played. was i correct in doing so. or have i dreamt this rule up in my sleep

Is is the bit that would concern me. 'around' your ball conjurs up being close enough to be determined to be your lie.

As none of us where there only you can be certain what you were doing, personally I think it's not worth messing about with bunker raking until your well out of it.

 

[bigslice]

Is is the bit that would concern me. 'around' your ball conjurs up being close enough to be determined to be your lie.

As none of us where there only you can be certain what you were doing, personally I think it's not worth messing about with bunker raking until your well out of it.

my score was done in and i would normally just play it as it lies but i was sure there was someting. so i did it to get a reaction from my two playing partners.

 

[Colin L]

i thought i had read somewhere you could do this. looked in the bunker and the chain (my away course is well classy) for the rake was around my ball. so when i lifted it out the way the bunker was a mess snake like. so i raked it and played. was i correct in doing so. or have i dreamt this rule up in my sleep

It is difficult to be sure since we weren't actually there, but it does sound as if you were in breach of Rule 13-2 by improving the area of your stance or swing and possibly of your intended line of play. If you are talking about removing this chain from around your ball (which you can do) and smoothing out the marks of the chain, it really sounds like the area affected by Rule 13-2 and you shouldn't have raked. Just don't rake anything anywhere in a wide circle around where you are to play from and in front of you.

@BT - can you clarify what you mean by "a possible future stroke"?

 

[BTatHome]

@BT - can you clarify what you mean by "a possible future stroke"?

I seem to remember some disussions mentioning raking areas of the bunker where your next shot may come to rest ... In fact I'm sure it was discussed in the recent thread about this very same subject.

EDIT ... Found it

 

[Colin L]

Thanks BT. I thought you might be referring to that possibility but wasn't sure.

I dont know about improving a future shot as you dont know where you next shot will finish, that seems a bit strange to me.

So what BT was referring to is the possibility that if you correctly rake an area of a bunker that doesn't affect the lie, area of stance line of play etc of your next stroke but when you make that stroke your ball ends up in the area you have just raked, is there a penalty? It can happen, for example, if you fail to clear the bunker, hit the wall and your ball bounces back on to the raked area.

The answer, in my view, depends on your awareness and intention. If you raked that bunker area without any thought that you could end up on it after your next stroke and no obvious reason (such as a very high face) to suppose you are not going to get out of the bunker, there is no penalty. If, on the other hand, you were in a deep, high faced bunker and aware you might not clear it, raking the area with the intention of getting a decent lie if your ball bounced back would be penalised. Knowing that such a difficult shot was coming up, you are as well not to rake so no-one can question your intentions. The penalty in this instance would be for a breach of 1-2 because you are changing physical conditions in order to affect the playing of the hole.

 

[duncan mackie]

I seem to remember some disussions mentioning raking areas of the bunker where your next shot may come to rest ... In fact I'm sure it was discussed in the recent thread about this very same subject.

EDIT ... Found it

posts 18 and 19 in that thread explain the situation, and how intent is a factor in this.

however, as louise and colin are suggesting, implying, alluding, without intent there is no problem raking an area where you may end up playing a future shot from unless you are breaching 13-2. If you are raking it because you think your ball may come to rest there, then the note to 13-4 is no longer applicable so you are breaching that by raking at all.

 

[North Mimms]

what about raking the footprints that you make walking through the bunker to reach your ball (Big bunker!)?

 

[duncan mackie]

what about raking the footprints that you make walking through the bunker to reach your ball (Big bunker!)?

it depends why you are doing it - as I keep posting!

the only time you can rake without regard for anything else at all is when your ball has left the bunker, and the bunker is no longer on your line of play for your next shot.

if your footsteps are on your line of play for your current shot then you are breaching 13-2

if you think your ball might come to rest where your footprints are as a result of your next shot then the exception to 13-4 no longer applies and you would be breaching 13-4

if your footsteps are not on your line of play for this shot, and you are raking them solely to care for the course, then you are fine.

cue Bob's mantra!

 

[alnecosse]

This is one of those rules for me i (a) just dont see the point (b) as i would never touch the sand when my ball is in there as it just doesn't seem right no matter how many footprints are in there. usually just curse the fact the bunkers not raked properly.

 

[BTatHome]

This is one of those rules for me i (a) just dont see the point (b) as i would never touch the sand when my ball is in there as it just doesn't seem right no matter how many footprints are in there. usually just curse the fact the bunkers not raked properly.

A bunker is 30 yards long and your ball has landed just a few feet from the front edge (very easy to escape from as it flat, with no lip). Somebody has placed the rake at the back of the bunker and 10 feet inside (it's impossible to reach the rake without stepping into the bunker). Your the fourth player to play your shot, so you step into the bunker to retrieve the rake and rake your footprints as you leave, whilst your partners play their own shots. You then proceed to the front of the bunker to play your shot. You are now ready to play your shot and only have a very small area to rake before proceeding, you have not delayed play after your shot by having to walk backwards and forwards to the rake, and you have fully cared for the bunker by raking all the marks you made whist retrieving the rake and playing your ball....and this without delaying your partners or the rest of the course.

You walk onto your birdie chance with a warm glow

 

[alnecosse]

A bunker is 30 yards long and your ball has landed just a few feet from the front edge (very easy to escape from as it flat, with no lip). Somebody has placed the rake at the back of the bunker and 10 feet inside (it's impossible to reach the rake without stepping into the bunker). Your the fourth player to play your shot, so you step into the bunker to retrieve the rake and rake your footprints as you leave, whilst your partners play their own shots. You then proceed to the front of the bunker to play your shot. You are now ready to play your shot and only have a very small area to rake before proceeding, you have not delayed play after your shot by having to walk backwards and forwards to the rake, and you have fully cared for the bunker by raking all the marks you made whist retrieving the rake and playing your ball....and this without delaying your partners or the rest of the course.

You walk onto your birdie chance with a warm glow

Thanks for the great explanation and i know exactly what your saying, but it must just be my age as i think the minute you touch the sand with rake its testing the sand but i suppose its just another rule that can be used to your advantage.

 

[Losttheplot]

Thanks for the great explanation and i know exactly what your saying, but it must just be my age as i think the minute you touch the sand with rake its testing the sand but i suppose its just another rule that can be used to your advantage.

I was always under the impression that by raking the bunker before you play your shot, even in the 30yard bunker example, you are testing the sand and can gauge how the club might get through the sand by knowing if its hard underneath or if theres plenty of sand under the ball.

From reading this thread I stand corrected and will take this new thought process away with me

 

[bigslice]

I was always under the impression that by raking the bunker before you play your shot, even in the 30yard bunker example, you are testing the sand and can gauge how the club might get through the sand by knowing if its hard underneath or if theres plenty of sand under the ball.

From reading this thread I stand corrected and will take this new thought process away with me

the video in post 5 helps