I.D. Cards.

[freddielong]

The thing with ID cards is it wont make a bit of difference, they know tens of thousands of people who are in the country illegally already and can't get them out. It will cost the DEBT ridden country billions to produce and run and wont do anything. It won't help crime it won't stop fraud (if anything it will increase as there will be something else to copy) it wont stop benefit crime. It will be a massive massive waste of your money (sorry thats already spent your childrens money) and will not help anyone or anything it is a joke just like the current government. That is why I am against it.

 

[USER1999]

I don't give a monkeys either way, I just don't want to pay for it.

However, it would contain biometric id stuff apparently.

The odd thing with this, is that with a finger print scan, an iris scan, what ever, the police can tell me who I am, as it is all databased.

Therefore, why do I have to carry the blimmen thing. It is pointless.

I often go out without a wallet, in shorts with no pocket, I don't need to carry a key, but suddenly I have to take a totally unecessary piece of card board with me.

As an aside, why is the driving license in two parts, neither of which is valid without the other.

What if the id card is a credit card sized item, that is only valid when presented with an A4 sized piece of paper which you also have to carry.

It will be a mess, so I'm out.

 

[Parmo]

Bang on. A vote for ID cards is a vote to have our liberty slowly removed.

Liberty, is that the same liberty that allows parents to breed killers, drug addicts and rapists or the other liberty that shows the UK is unable anymore to be self responsible and needs laws to make parents to be parents?

Total farce my man, this country was 100% better in the 1960s, well maybe not on the work front with men having to leave family life in search of work but apart from that stable jobs, children been children, communities, fear of the reprocautions of crime, good music and many more. The NHS is now is a state it has to back track to 20 years ago to offer the level of service it did then, far too many money grabbers and politics within the police, NHS and public sector for my liking.

What we need is an overall long term government of collation of parties to sit down and put in place something to sort the economy out with a plan of 20-30 years not a four year term, we can still have the 4 year terms and elect them for minor things but though this will never happen it is the only way.

The thing is everyone knows even without the recent recession the Tories will just increase taxes and decrease public spending, so you pay more for less and they will use the countries debt to force income and VAT rises.

 

[USER1999]

Ah ha, even though they are not in government, it is all the fault of the Tories. How could I have been so stupid?

 

[freddielong]

The thing is everyone knows even without the recent recession the Tories will just increase taxes and decrease public spending,

How can you say that look at the history books Labour always taxes people to death, thats what they do - spend your money for you.
Yes initially the torries would have to cut spending to correct the complete mess Labour has left the country in

 

[Gustavo]

Ah ha, even though they are not in government, it is all the fault of the Tories. How could I have been so stupid?

Thatcher and Reagan should be taking the blame for the current economic crisis, only a disgusting corruption of history is letting them off them both of hook. We now have the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. The restrictions and regulations that were put in place in the 1930s by political leaders who had just experienced a frightening financial crisis, and were trying to prevent another. But by 1980's the memory and lessons of the Depression had some how faded away. The more you look into the origins of this crisis it has to be clear to anyone with half a brain that this crisis became inevitable after the Thatcher Reagan deregulations. Thatcher and Reagan had ignored the lessons of history in favour of short term greed of their financial backers. Surely this should be regarded as treason. Their time in office ushered in rapid rises in inequality and financial irresponsibility. Thatcher and Reagan allowed a few, none to honest individuals, to become vastly rich while working families saw little or no gains. Thanks to privatisation of our utilities etc. and the loss of jobs and huge increase in prices that went with it. It was an era we are still paying for now, with the asset stripping of our nation and it should be a national scandal that Thatcher made herself a millionaire out of our nations oil reserves. Another lesson from history wasted, this goes way beyond anything that is happening in the expenses scandal. With getting rid of credit controls debt began to rapidly rise for both countries under the Thatcher Reagan. You could borrow but you could not earn. Thanks to their stewardship Britain and the US economies became debtor economies. Most of our economy was wilfully sacrificed in favour of banking and services. The means of making stable honest money simply thrown away. This has to be Thatcher and Reagan's terrible legacy to the world. The greatest financial disaster since the 30's. Their deregulations gave the financial industry a license to gamble with people money and pensions at the best, at worst to simply loot it. This financial house of cards built on Tory deregulation was always going to collapse as soon as the slightest dip in the economies of the UK and the US occurred. Whether it was the rising price of oil hastened by speculators, still going on even today, irresponsible borrowing or the housing bubble I am not sure but one thing I am sure of is that Brown should not be taking all the blame for this because Thatcher and Reagan's deregulation of the financial world would certainly and eventually wreak havoc on both our economies and many other economies who copied their lethal, disastrous, divisive policies. It is absurd and extremely dangerous that history should be corrupted in such a way and that the public are kept in ignorance of history. That the Tories under Cameron are in the clear to carry on Thatcher's evil deeds to this country and wreak further havoc on our economy and lives. As it is we are heading for an even deeper recession under an ignorant Cameron, who can apparently get away with anything, even a tax payer sponsored mortgage when he already has numerous houses. Unless we learn the lessons from history, history will repeat itself yet again in such a terrible cruel way.

 

[viscount17]

Vote is For but I won't pay to have one.

Why for?

I carried one for 25 years and have done so in one form or another all my life, as have you all, loads of it.

tbh I would like to see a bit more than basic data on/in the card to simplify things, for example there is no reason that the driving licence shouldn't be part of it that I can see - except that we'll still have to have a separate one to conform with EU.

thinking this through maybe there are good reasons not,
there is a mass of records that use either your Nat Ins No. or your NHS No. or your driver No. and your address (there are probably others but I think these are the main ones). At the moment it's possible (vaguely) that the tie-up between them is incomplete. Logically these would all form part of an ID card, which would finally and definitively link all your data.
Access to your Nat Ins No. gives access to your financial data - no business of your doctor when the NHS No. is used to access your medical record, - no business of an Insurance company when you want to insure your car (funny that they why don't ask for your driver No.) . . .

Can I change my vote?

 

[Tommo21]

I’m against it for a couple of reasons. Firstly I went to my bank and opened a investment ISA, this is the bank I been with for years and get my wages paid in, and yet I still had to show ID…passport and such like. New starts at my work need a driving licence or passport. So, if that’s not good enough what is. If it’s to help stop illegal immigrants or help with the bombing situation we’ve had In the past then I think any government in power must be daft to think they wont get round an ID card.

 

[Herbie]

Gustavo, I am sure Brown had many many many many many many learned people like yourself, all knowing what you have just stated and having the ear of Blair and Brown must have told them exactly what you have just blurted out, and much more, yet they squandered everything provided by a benine economy when they took over during a period where conservatism was probably needed.
So with all that knowledge and reasoning that you seem to feel you have, surely Blair and Brown are more guilty than any other leaders in history, arn't they?

 

[CliveW]

Vote is For but I won't pay to have one.

Why for?

I carried one for 25 years and have done so in one form or another all my life, as have you all, loads of it.

I carry nothing with me. I don't have a "Club" card, photo driving licence, etc. I pay for things with cash so don't need a credit/debit card for everyday use.

 

[Gustavo]

Gustavo, I am sure Brown had many many many many many many learned people like yourself, all knowing what you have just stated and having the ear of Blair and Brown must have told them exactly what you have just blurted out, and much more, yet they squandered everything provided by a benine economy when they took over during a period where conservatism was probably needed.
So with all that knowledge and reasoning that you seem to feel you have, surely Blair and Brown are more guilty than any other leaders in history, arn't they?

No. Gordon brown has made mistakes, yet is still lauded and praised worldwide for his handling of the GLOBAL economic crisis.

 

[USER1999]

How can one man even think he can handle a global economic crisis. If it can be solved by Brown, then it can't be global, and it probably isn't a crisis.

All Brown has done is pledge away Britains future, such that we will all be paying for his ideas for decades to come.

 

[freddielong]

I can't believe people are buying his "I got us into this mess so I am the one who can get us out" routine

 

[Parmo]

Regardless of the current climate the fact remains the Tories have been proven by an ITV news show that they are indeed the highest taxation party.

Not remember 40% income taxation as a base line? oh sorry that was the previous governments fault wasnt it, silly me.

 

[CliveW]

Regardless of the current climate the fact remains the Tories have been proven by an ITV news show that they are indeed the highest taxation party.

If it's on ITV it must be true then.....not!

 

[madandra]

I voted AGAINST simply because I dont think the police will use any discretion. I think some of them will act like the S.S. and people will be picked on by Officer Dibble.

 

[backwoodsman]

I'm surprised that the vote was nearly 2:1 in favour. This government - any government - has repeatedly shown that it cannot be trusted to maintain the information securely. And what does it intend to do with the information anyway? If you believe that it will in any way help with crime, terrorism and illegal immigration, then I fear you are sadly mistaken - for the simple fact that such people by definition operate outside the law. (Oh, silly me, I forgot question 16 on the form: Are you a) a terrorist; b) a criminal; c) illegal immigrant; d) honest & law abiding. Tick all that apply...). Ask yourself; how many modern day acts of terrorism would have been prevented by carrying a card? The crime/terrorism situation is just the new-age bogeyman to be wheeled out every time the government of the day wishes impose something of its choosing

I for one will refuse to carry a handy bite sized package of personal information to be used and abused by the state. I should not be obliged to prove who I am to the whim of anyone with a modicum of "authority". I have the right to be anonymous if I choose. It will be merely another level of state surveillance upon us - to be abused, lost and sold by people over who we have little control.

You won't know you've lost your liberty until it's gone - and although "liberty" is easy to poo-pooh I find it very unsettling that people seem to casually sleepwalk into its erosion and loss without any seeming alarm?

 

[Atticus_Finch]

I'm surprised that the vote was nearly 2:1 in favour. This government - any government - has repeatedly shown that it cannot be trusted to maintain the information securely. And what does it intend to do with the information anyway? If you believe that it will in any way help with crime, terrorism and illegal immigration, then I fear you are sadly mistaken - for the simple fact that such people by definition operate outside the law. (Oh, silly me, I forgot question 16 on the form: Are you a) a terrorist; b) a criminal; c) illegal immigrant; d) honest & law abiding. Tick all that apply...). Ask yourself; how many modern day acts of terrorism would have been prevented by carrying a card? The crime/terrorism situation is just the new-age bogeyman to be wheeled out every time the government of the day wishes impose something of its choosing

I for one will refuse to carry a handy bite sized package of personal information to be used and abused by the state. I should not be obliged to prove who I am to the whim of anyone with a modicum of "authority". I have the right to be anonymous if I choose. It will be merely another level of state surveillance upon us - to be abused, lost and sold by people over who we have little control.

You won't know you've lost your liberty until it's gone - and although "liberty" is easy to poo-pooh I find it very unsettling that people seem to casually sleepwalk into its erosion and loss without any seeming alarm?

Very well said.
(or typed)

Back to the original post, it seems that I was the one that was out of touch after all. I'm astounded.
Doesn't change my mind though.

 

[Herbie]

Regardless of the current climate the fact remains the Tories have been proven by an ITV news show that they are indeed the highest taxation party.

Not remember 40% income taxation as a base line? oh sorry that was the previous governments fault wasnt it, silly me.

Depends what the tax is used for, or saved for, and Blair and Brown used all their stealth taxes stupidly, and saved nothing!
Also, if you read history in politics, you will see a disturbing trend where Tories take over from Labour and inherit a devastated economy and/or big problems, they sort them out against all the protestations against Tax, needed to sort things out, then in come Labour who inherit a reasonably stable or benine economy, which is something the Tories have NEVER inherited, they then increase the Taxes they said they wouldn't, on top of this add a pile of stealth taxes, raid rainy day funds and pension funds and squander the lot. Now this has happened before and it will happen again, unless the country changes its silly alliances with certain parties and politics changes for the better. If you cannot or have not seen such history, you must stop reading with the rose tints on. Labour have a history of not quite having what is needed when it matters.

Dont get me wrong, I dont think any of the current bunch from any party have whats needed, but if its a choice of the best of the worst, labour would not get a look in from me, they never have since I have been able to vote.

 

[backwoodsman]

Very well said.
(or typed)

Back to the original post, it seems that I was the one that was out of touch after all. I'm astounded.
Doesn't change my mind though.

Me too - I was thinking along lines of yourself and fully expected something like 2 or 3 to one against. Seems the main concern is having to pay for one? Bloody cheek that bit, but not the reason I'm agin (Cost not important - if they can't get it out of you one way, they'll find another).

Ah well....