How would you guys react?

[Deleted member 1147]

The background: a couple of weeks ago we held the Midland PGA Championship at my club, the Pro AM was on the Thursday and the Pro's played their tournament on the friday. As such the rough was allowed to grow beyond it's usual length as they didn't cut it those days like they normally would in preparation for the Saturday competition.

They then held a Medal on the Saturday, and, as the rough was quite long, play was slow with people searching for balls in the first and 2nd cuts.

A committee members group took 4.5 hrs to play and as such he moaned and a decision was made to speed up play.

So this last weekend they decided to play off the yellow tees rather than the whites. As this shorter course would speed up play.

Would you be annoyed that you had originally signed up for a White tee comp and then they moved it onto the yellows, and the hazards are now easily carry-able (bunkers which cost alot of money to rebuild and move) and that they intend playing all the non-major saturday comps in August and September off the yellows, just because one week as an exception, the course was setup very difficult and they decided to play a medal that day rather than a stableford?

 

[patricks148]

there are at least a couple of shots different in the SSS between the yellow and Whites at mine, so i would rather play the whites... i need those two extra at the moment the way my driving is

 

[Hosel Fade]

I would be annoyed as our course scores easier off whites due to the par being two shots higher and SSS is -2 from both sets.

One hole goes from 190odd par 3 with a tiny pimple green to a 240odd par 4 and a 400 odd narrow par 4 with water stopping a chasing shot out of the trees goes to 470odd par 5 where you can just hit iron,iron wedge

 

[Deleted member 1147]

The par remains the same but sss goes to -1, whilst the course measures 6500 rather than 6900 yds.

We had a course modification in recent years and added/improved bunkering. However, those bunkers come into play off the white and blue tees, but are not in play for the better players off the yellows.

The round this weekend still took 3h50ms, and we were waiting on most holes, having made up the 16 minutes we were behind the group ahead by the 4th tee. We were then never let through. So the club seem to think the course length, rather than etiquette or setup is at fault.

 

[fundy]

On the plus side, at least they have acknowledged there is a problem and have tried a short term solution. Doesnt appear the right solution but hopefully they'll get some feedback and over time will look at the set up of the course and other contributing factors.

We have a similar issue albeit only on one hole, they insist on playing the par 3 8th at our off the back 220 yard tee, with knee high rough down the right hand side. The majority of the field hit driver and the majority seem to miss right, causing one almighty bottleneck. Last years club champs the captain moved it forward one day but seems they are just shoving it as far back every comp again now (its a far better hole from 180 yards plus keeps the course flowing)

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I agree Fundy, at least they are looking at something, but it seems such a kneejerk reaction.
I have no issue with moving tees around for some variety, and playing the odd yellow tee comp', but not all non-major events for the rest of, what has been a very short, summer.

 

[garyinderry]

4.5 on a tough medal day with the usual mix of low men right up to duffers on 6900 track with plenty of rough is hardly snails pace.


Slow but definitely an over reaction. Especially as you say it was a one off.

 

[njrose51]

Sorry for appearing possibly a bit dim, but I thought the issue with the slow play was with the rough being too long and balls being lost/difficult to find. So how does moving from the white to the yellow tees stop this?

As for signing up for a comp from the white to then find its now on the yellow, as a high handicapper who often struggles of the tee, I'd welcome this.

 

[Slab]

Sympathise at a change in the course you thought you'd be playing

Had the reverse on Saturday when we were pushed back a tee meaning a hole with a 200 yard carry that I couldn't make (3 of the 4-ball didn't make it as it turned out) but as it was stableford it probably made the round quicker

Although your scorecard shows that the difference is less than a dozen yards off 13 holes, so no difference really (that wouldn't be replicated with a bit of wind, rain or a colder day)
The other 5 holes have 30 or more yards difference and could change how the hole is played and the players enjoyment

But as usual its generally swings and wotsits over 18 holes. By being 30 yards shorter it might mean a longer hitter flys a bunker but runs out of space so they have to club down which brings uncle bunker back into play or other things like that

 

[Hosel Fade]

If you have a decent sized entry why not run it as two separate comps with say >10 eligible for a comp off the yellows and <15 eligible for one off whites. Can figure out where to make the split based on past comp entries at your club

I know people will likely kick off because they paid their fees to experience the whole course or some nonsense but surely that is a sensible idea if enough people end up playing in each

Still doesn't solve the set up issue though

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Have I missed something here? You state that the rough would normally be cut in prep for the weekend medal so why don't they just cut it back to what they normally would?

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Have I missed something here? You state that the rough would normally be cut in prep for the weekend medal so why don't they just cut it back to what they normally would?

No you haven't missed something, this is the issue that annoyed quite a few of us.

Normally the rough is shorter than it was on the previous weekend. They then cut it down to normal levels, or perhaps slightly lower for this weekend, so balls were easier to find (but still quite difficult to play out of, as rough should be). But they also made us play off the yellows, and intend doing so for the next 2 months in all but the board comp's such as this weekends Club Champ's.

Quite a few people are talking of not playing any of these yellow tee comp's - would you or others feel annoyed and boycott, or just accept it and carry on?

I can't quite decide how strongly I feel about it.

 

[jamielaing]

No you haven't missed something, this is the issue that annoyed quite a few of us.

Normally the rough is shorter than it was on the previous weekend. They then cut it down to normal levels, or perhaps slightly lower for this weekend, so balls were easier to find (but still quite difficult to play out of, as rough should be). But they also made us play off the yellows, and intend doing so for the next 2 months in all but the board comp's such as this weekends Club Champ's.

Quite a few people are talking of not playing any of these yellow tee comp's - would you or others feel annoyed and boycott, or just accept it and carry on?

I can't quite decide how strongly I feel about it.

I'd be annoyed and would make it known that I am annoyed. The issue is that it depends on the membership of the club. If you have a large number that are happier with the shorter course because they will score better then you are on a hiding to nothing. If however there are a lot who are of the same mind as you then you might be able to get this changed. I would suggest you email your concern in and encourage others to do likewise.

I probably wouldn't boycott as you've paid your money so may as well get the use out it. What would concern me is how this could affect your handicap. Playing a course with a par of 2 less could cause you to increase. At the same time if this set up is 'easier' SS could go down also which further affects your handicap.

I would definitely be making my feelings known, if not this could become the norm for next season. If that's the case I'd probably want to leave the club as I like to play from the backs, that's just my preference.

 

[Fyldewhite]

"Play the course as you find it". So it's a few yards shorter, or maybe a lot shorter with a SSS to match. Still a golf course and still a qualifying comp so I'd be playing. I may not be happy, and it does seem from what you've said an over reaction to one bad week but I'd see boycotting them as cutting your nose off to spite your face. There are better ways of making the committee aware, and prompting them to maybe justify their decision?

 

[351DRIVER]

I would be royally pissed off, i hit the ball a long way and playing back tees is something that always appeals, being told btw you are off the yellows would not make me a happy chappy.

I WANT TO PLAY THE WHOLE COURSE, not start part of the way down each hole!

thank you

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would play it of whatever tee the course is using - don't think it matters tbh as long at they are doing it for a reason and have explained that.

Would just go out play the course see what happens - if it's a bit shorter then it's not really then end of the world - at least it's still a Qualifer

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I would be royally pissed off, i hit the ball a long way and playing back tees is something that always appeals, being told btw you are off the yellows would not make me a happy chappy.

I WANT TO PLAY THE WHOLE COURSE, not start part of the way down each hole!

thank you

I know where you're coming from, I've been known to tonk the odd drive past the 220 mark before as well

Guess you just have to look on it as a) a chance to get close to some of the greens or b) hit irons off the tee to keep it in play then try to build a score.

But I would much prefer to be back on the proper tees :thup:

 

[Slab]

I wonder if there’s a communication issue and the rough length was just one factor in the slower round (in addition to playing off whites and medal format rather than stableford)

Maybe the committee member said, right enough’s enough, since we made the course changes it appears as if the membership here can’t play a medal off the whites in less than 4½ hours, we need to see what the problem is, its not going to fix itself
Do we need to adjust tee spacing, have we got the format right, course set up etc etc etc
Let’s start by seeing how long it takes them off the yellows... what's that you say? 40 minutes quicker! We might be onto something here, ok one round isn’t enough, let’s try a few more comps but don’t mess with the important ones
Once we know the average for that we can look at other areas, maybe there's a choke point causing this, after all most of the white tees are on the same tee box as the yellows so it cant be (or could be) just the rough length and if we try all initiatives at the same time we’ll have no idea what it was that worked

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Would play it of whatever tee the course is using - don't think it matters tbh as long at they are doing it for a reason and have explained that.

Would just go out play the course see what happens - if it's a bit shorter then it's not really then end of the world - at least it's still a Qualifer

This is why I asked for opinions - like you and Fyldewhite suggest, it's golf on a measured course and as such go out and enjoy it.
But on the other hand, I want to play the course as it's intended for competition, with the hazards in play, to think how it should be done. The biggest differences in distances tend to be on the longer & harder par 4's which make them entirely different holes and of course the par 5's become eminently more accessible in 2.

ON saturday I hit our 1st, a 488 par 5 with driver and 7 iron, the 401 & 403 par 4 6th & 12th in driver, gap wedge. But normally the bunkering makes those holes so different, you either have to lay up, or risk/reward going along side or between bunkers from 35 or 41 yards further back off the whites. Instead I just flew all the trouble.

Thanks for your replies so far chaps - food for thought!

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I wonder if there’s a communication issue and the rough length was just one factor in the slower round (in addition to playing off whites and medal format rather than stableford)

Maybe the committee member said, right enough’s enough, since we made the course changes it appears as if the membership here can’t play a medal off the whites in less than 4½ hours, we need to see what the problem is, its not going to fix itself
Do we need to adjust tee spacing, have we got the format right, course set up etc etc etc
Let’s start by seeing how long it takes them off the yellows... what's that you say? 40 minutes quicker! We might be onto something here, ok one round isn’t enough, let’s try a few more comps but don’t mess with the important ones
Once we know the average for that we can look at other areas, maybe there's a choke point causing this, after all most of the white tees are on the same tee box as the yellows so it cant be (or could be) just the rough length and if we try all initiatives at the same time we’ll have no idea what it was that worked

Some good points - we have looked at tee time gapping, and the club keep reminding people to let through faster groups etc etc etc
However, I find that some people just tee off as soon as the group in front are out of range, and as I said before we weren't let through despite making up a 16 minute gap in 3 holes and then waiting on every tee and fairway for the remainder of the round.

I think what is really required is a marshall, and one with the balls to actually move/reprimand people.