Hogan's Stance

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm struggling to combat the s***ks and a lesson has pointed out that a definite - though not huge - sway on my backswing is not helping at all - and it is impacting on my hip turn etc etc

Anyway. Going back to my own basics I picked up Hogan's book (from what I learned the game as a kid) and when reading and looking at what he says about stance I realised that my stance was very narrow compared with his advice.

He says he prefers a quite wide stance - with his starting point being having inside of his heels shoulder-width apart for a 5i, with ball placed maybe 1-1.5 clubheads from left heel (with a 'neutral' arms and club). He advocates a consistent ball position with moving right foot position for other clubs.

Now I measured my shoulders and I'm about 18" - and stuck a measuring tape on the ground and took a stance with a 5i as he advocates. Blimey - they felt really far apart for me.

Now when learning the game and through the years as I improved I would have taken and checked my stance from the book - and so in time I have clearly significantly narrowed my stance - though when I did that I do not know.

With the wider stance it most certainly feels very stable - and definitely strengthens my right leg position - and that will I am sure help me eliminate my backswing sway.

But before I go doing anything further on putting this into practice - the stance does feel very wide. Is his thinking OLD thinking?

Yes - if it works for me and it stabilises my golf, of course I'll go for it. But am I simply creating the foundations for other issues?

 

[Hobbit]

Both Peter Alliss and Tom Watson, in his early years, promoted a wide stance to counter swaying. Alliss was a great ball striker, whose win ratio would have been better if his putting hadn’t been so streaky.

My only concern with a wide stance is it can limit hip rotation, resulting in a loss of yardage. It’s a bit of a trade off, and yards lost aren’t huge.

You have to ensure you transfer ok otherwise you’ll hit from the back foot- a bit of a pull, or pull slice.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Both Peter Alliss and Tom Watson, in his early years, promoted a wide stance to counter swaying. Alliss was a great ball striker, whose win ratio would have been better if his putting hadn’t been so streaky.

My only concern with a wide stance is it can limit hip rotation, resulting in a loss of yardage. It’s a bit of a trade off, and yards lost aren’t huge.

You have to ensure you transfer ok otherwise you’ll hit from the back foot- a bit of a pull, or pull slice.

OK - though what I think that I have to watch is that I might find myself pushing too hard off the inside of my right foot...and when I was doing that at the weekend I was lurching and smothering my shot.

Anyway - I have stuck a couple of markers in the grass outside 18" apart so that I can take a stance with my inside heels against the markers - to get used to the feeling of the stance and practice a take-away shoulder and hip-turn - with me facing my garden studio (full height) windows so that I can match my reflection to the pictures in Hogan's book (or is that just too sad )

 

[Khamelion]

Both Peter Alliss and Tom Watson, in his early years, promoted a wide stance to counter swaying. Alliss was a great ball striker, whose win ratio would have been better if his putting hadn’t been so streaky.

My only concern with a wide stance is it can limit hip rotation, resulting in a loss of yardage. It’s a bit of a trade off, and yards lost aren’t huge.

You have to ensure you transfer ok otherwise you’ll hit from the back foot- a bit of a pull, or pull slice.

I can relate to this. The last few rounds I've notice that I'm slipping back to my old ways of not getting the weight onto the left side, swing from the right foot and slicing the ball. IF I stand narrower to try and help me get weight onto the left through the swing I tend to lose my balance and the swing is just awful.

I can't find a happy medium at the moment between a wide(ish) stable stance but with difficulties getting weight over to the left, or a narrower stance and losing balance. Nowt I try at the moment is working for me.

 

[Khamelion]

OK - though what I think that I have to watch is that I might find myself pushing too hard off the inside of my right foot...and when I was doing that at the weekend I was lurching and smothering my shot.

Anyway - I have stuck a couple of markers in the grass outside 18" apart so that I can take a stance with my inside heels against the markers - to get used to the feeling of the stance and practice a take-away shoulder and hip-turn - with me facing my garden studio (full height) windows so that I can match my reflection to the pictures in Hogan's book (or is that just too sad )

Not at all if it works and helps you

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not at all if it works and helps you

The window stuff is me regressing to when I was 12yrs old (some would say I haven't advanced much beyond that age) - as I would stand in my parent's garden opposite the window in the side of the garage - with Hogan's book on the ground in front of me - matching my reflected stance and swing position with the pictures in the book

 

[Hobbit]

OK - though what I think that I have to watch is that I might find myself pushing too hard off the inside of my right foot...and when I was doing that at the weekend I was lurching and smothering my shot.

Anyway - I have stuck a couple of markers in the grass outside 18" apart so that I can take a stance with my inside heels against the markers - to get used to the feeling of the stance and practice a take-away shoulder and hip-turn - with me facing my garden studio (full height) windows so that I can match my reflection to the pictures in Hogan's book (or is that just too sad )

The pushing too far off the right foot isn’t too dissimilar to Player’s step forward and turn to face the target. Providing the timing is right it won’t hurt you.

Occasionally, if I go after the ball a bit hard i do a ‘Player.’ Not something I’m keen on but if it works...

 

[Hobbit]

I can relate to this. The last few rounds I've notice that I'm slipping back to my old ways of not getting the weight onto the left side, swing from the right foot and slicing the ball. IF I stand narrower to try and help me get weight onto the left through the swing I tend to lose my balance and the swing is just awful.

I can't find a happy medium at the moment between a wide(ish) stable stance but with difficulties getting weight over to the left, or a narrower stance and losing balance. Nowt I try at the moment is working for me.

Having played with you a number of times I can picture this clearly. You do this when you try and knock the ball into another county. Ease up, and try and hit 3/4 shots. You might think they are 3/4 shots but they’ll be pretty close to full shots.

 

[Jensen]

I'm an advocate of the One Plane swing as detailed in Jim Hardy's book "Plane Truth".
At address Hardy advocates flairing the left foot out (for right handed) 35 to 45 degrees. This restricts hip turn on the back swing and may help with the sways

 

[Roops]

As a habitual "swayer and stayer" (on the back foot), I have found that really feeling that the inside of my right foot is pressing into the ground and my right knee kicks in a touch, really helps. It just gives you a nice solid brace to turn against and stops the "sway and stay". Gives you a nice base to rotate the hips from.

 

[Hobbit]

As a habitual "swayer and stayer" (on the back foot), I have found that really feeling that the inside of my right foot is pressing into the ground and my right knee kicks in a touch, really helps. It just gives you a nice solid brace to turn against and stops the "sway and stay". Gives you a nice base to rotate the hips from.

When practicing, if you do, place a ball under the outside of your right foot. You’ll really feel it if you are swaying.

 

[bobmac]

Making the stance wider helps you sway more

 

[Ndw7]

As a habitual "swayer and stayer" (on the back foot), I have found that really feeling that the inside of my right foot is pressing into the ground and my right knee kicks in a touch, really helps. It just gives you a nice solid brace to turn against and stops the "sway and stay". Gives you a nice base to rotate the hips from.

The feeling of the inside of my right foot pressing into the ground has really helped my strike. An issue I found was that I would sway the other way, i.e. tilt towards the target which was picked up in a lesson recently.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

As a habitual "swayer and stayer" (on the back foot), I have found that really feeling that the inside of my right foot is pressing into the ground and my right knee kicks in a touch, really helps. It just gives you a nice solid brace to turn against and stops the "sway and stay". Gives you a nice base to rotate the hips from.

I've been doing a little practice putting a 1/2" 'wedge' under the outside of my right foot to give me the feeling of my weight being on the inside of my right foot at address - and being conscious of keeping that feeling through the back swing; getting the feeling of rotation - then feeling myself driving off the inside of the right foot to initiate the hips moving on start of the downswiing. I have to watch for a lurch of the hips to the left rather than an 'unwinding' of the hips.

You'd think I've never played this bleedin' game - but I am having to go back to basics. I am expecting 4 or 5 successive 0.1 handicap increases whilst I sort this out - then hopefully what happened last year will happen again - I follow the 5 successive 0.1s with 3 months of improvement and cuts. I can but hope and work on it. And along the way I will take a few lessons to ensure I don't do what I did last year i.e. do a fix that wasn't - it was just a sticky plaster and we know what happens with sticky plasters - eventually they fall off - and over winter mine did.