Have golf clubs changed socially in the UK?

[BrianM]

Hi People,

For those of you who are old enough to remember, when did golf clubs in the UK change from being places of "Members Only" run by old men who kept their military titles in civvy street, had to have a handicap to become a member, couldn't join if you were not a member, needed to know the right people to get "into the club" and other such socialized elitism become less common?

Why were those attitudes once deemed desirable in a golf club? Why did members embrace them and perpetuate these ethics. Was it seen as much a part of the game as the game itself?

I understand and a desire to be commercially successful but apparently (at least according to a book I am currently reading) this was the norm (perceived or otherwise) well into the 1990s and probably still is in the minds of some.

So can anyone tell me why it was so great, why it was allowed to happen, what were the benefits, and what happened if you wanted to change it. It does seem very antiquated yet it wasn't that long ago.

Thanks,

Craig.

What book are you reading?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Hi Junior,

Thanks so much for that. It would indeed be interesting to see how it is handled in different parts of the country. Do you think it's fair to say this is why professional golf was perhaps not at the high standard overall in the UK as it was in America? Essentially because golf was basically just the game played as part of belonging to an amateur social elite?

No, that would be a totally erroneous and illogical conclusion to draw. After all the early pioneers of professional golf in the USA were generally of UK origin.

The gap between the two countries' tournament circuits did not become pronounced until post WW2 and was largely attributable to the economy of one having been virtually destroyed by the war whilst the other had thrived.

Thus there were greater prize funds and more tournaments in the States enabling players to be just that, tournament players. In this country, until the late 60's those playing in the relatively limited number of events had to, at the same time, retain jobs as club pro's giving lessons and selling clubs, balls etc;

 

[Robster59]

Do you think those ho were all ties blazers and old school snobbery knew the damage they were doing to the games image or do you think they just did not care?

Also ai wonder what kind of game they thought it was. Essentially a social tool to differentiate themselves, a sport, a way of asserting social superiority and what was the need of that?

Thanks,

Craig.

I think that they honestly never thought the situation would change and that golf would no longer be the exclusive preserve it once was. Some people joined for the cache of being a member of the club, some to play golf, others for a bit of both. I think you will find in most clubs the majority of members just wanted to play golf and so accepted the rules as part and parcel of being a member. But like in all things, there are always some people who like to be in charge, organise etc. and wanted to keep the status quo for as long as possible. Quite often because 'that's how it's always been'.

 

[duncan mackie]

Hi People,

For those of you who are old enough to remember, when did golf clubs in the UK change from being places of "Members Only" run by old men who kept their military titles in civvy street, had to have a handicap to become a member, couldn't join if you were not a member, needed to know the right people to get "into the club" and other such socialized elitism become less common?

Why were those attitudes once deemed desirable in a golf club? Why did members embrace them and perpetuate these ethics. Was it seen as much a part of the game as the game itself?

I understand and a desire to be commercially successful but apparently (at least according to a book I am currently reading) this was the norm (perceived or otherwise) well into the 1990s and probably still is in the minds of some.

So can anyone tell me why it was so great, why it was allowed to happen, what were the benefits, and what happened if you wanted to change it. It does seem very antiquated yet it wasn't that long ago.

Thanks,

Craig.

Everything you reference here isn't a function of golf clubs per se - it's related to society in general. Golf clubs were/are merely a reflection on this.

There remain some clubs that exist only because of the people are prepared to contribute sufficiently to maintain them as they are - those that wish to deride their standards are extremely unlikely to chose to do the same (there's no evidence for it anywhere so far).

The cyclical nature of such things suggests that over time there will be more, as yet un defined, memberships developing new norms (or oddities).

 

[Liverbirdie]

Sounds like the basis of a great sociological study if I were at University. Thanks so much!

Your in the University of life, my good man. Can still use it there.:thup:

The old Jewish guy was cracking company, a real rules guru, and had some great stories, as a 70 odd year old. Again he had 3-4 stories about fellow Jews being unwelcome at other clubs, some of them were lauded amateur players, as well.

Mustard short game, as well.

 

[SammmeBee]

Thankfully there are still a few golf clubs run properly.......

 

[Liverbirdie]

My Grandad had a highly accomplished military career. I just fail to see, as he would have, the significance of it in the running of a club. Essentially were they not using it to draw attention and presumed authority to themselves?

I remember my Grandad wearing his military blazer and regimental tie on occasion. As Nanna used to tell him..."You're retired now, darling. Here, have a Scotch!"

I'm guessing that the American military was run along different lines, traditionally. The officer class may have been more middle class, whereas the British military had familial lines going back to the age of commissioning, especially in the upper class. Some families even now have a proud record of military service going back many generations.

In Britain, a higher percentage would have served in the world wars between 1914-1946, than what would have in USA, also.

As a by-word for the stuffy old gentlemen that still inhabit some clubs, I refer to them as the "colonels".

BTW - great thread, about time we had something a bit different.:thup:

 

[Farmergeddon]

It really bugs me when people visit a golf club once and moan about the 'stuffy old gentlemen' or Colonels' or whatever sitting in their usual place in the bar!! These stuffy old gentlemen who so disturb your senses are the same guys who built the golf course and club putting in a lot of blood & sweat and no little finance just so you can go there the once enjoy the fruits of their labour and insult them. Maybe one day you could go over and talk to one and find out his story some of them are not boring!

 

[ManinBlack]

I've been a member of my club for 60 years, joining as a 10 year old. My father joined in 1950 and he told me about the history of the club, which was established in 1892. Prior to WW2 it was a decidedly "posh" club. The honours boards for this period are peppered with military officer ranks, the odd "Sir" & a "Bart". The majority of the members at this time were self employed, mostly quite wealthy businessmen. Up until WW2 there was another course in the town where the prols played, with around 100 members. Their course was incorporated into a park in 1945 & shortly thereafter the members were allowed to join the "posh" course, probably only welcomed because the club's finances had suffered during the war. This is probably where the social makeup of the club began to change. When I was young I remember a distinctly stuffy atmosphere at the club & the members were predominantly middle aged & still mostly self employed or solicitors, doctors, accountants. Since then there has been a trend for more & more, for want of a better definition, working class & middle class folks to join & the dropping of the joining fee & disappearance of the waiting list helped this.

I think that the increasing popularity of golf among "ordinary" people & the fact that it is now cheaper to play than in the past has made a lot of clubs less stuffy than they were. There are people at my club who think that this has gone too far in this direction & there are certainly people in the club who behave in a way that I wouldn't dream of, but then I'm an old fart, aren't I?

So to answer the OP - why was it so great? Because golf clubs in those days were a male sanctuary where the posh members didn't have to mix with the great unwashed. Why did it happen? Because the clubs were run by wealthy snobs. Benefits? Obvious if you were on the inside. Change? Very gradual as the social makeup of clubs, of necessity, changed. In my club's particular case, the rot set in in 1945 & it's been going downhill ever since!

 

[Liverbirdie]

It really bugs me when people visit a golf club once and moan about the 'stuffy old gentlemen' or Colonels' or whatever sitting in their usual place in the bar!! These stuffy old gentlemen who so disturb your senses are the same guys who built the golf course and club putting in a lot of blood & sweat and no little finance just so you can go there the once enjoy the fruits of their labour and insult them. Maybe one day you could go over and talk to one and find out his story some of them are not boring!

Is that aimed at my post?