Harrington tees off in front of tee box????

[kev_off_the_tee]

As it is in golf.

Do you think when Joe "fat a$$" Bloggs phones in they just accept that its correct???

no agreed.. but a spectator in rubgy or golf cant ask for a decision to be reviewed, i think golf is unique in its honesty of its players & thats what makes it so good

People are there purely as spectators and only an official (either present at the time or video official) or the other player and caddy should be able to make a call like that.

in football, would a referee allow a free kick to be retaken because a fan in the stadium or at home believed the defending wall wasn't 10 yards away?

 

[kev_off_the_tee]

What shite?

The ball clearly moved the last time!

Agreed Craw , it did , but like most of golf its down to the players word , do you believe padraig knew it moved & cheated ?/?

agreed, any player knows they are under the watchful eye of the officials and would be stupid enough.

 

[Pongo]

I can't agree with cheating, however trivial it may seem to some.

 

[Mongoose]

I can't agree with cheating, however trivial it may seem to some.

Inadvertently or accidentally breaking a rule is exactly that, an infringement of the rules of the game. Cheating is the attempt to gain an unfair advantage by deliberately breaking a rule. There is a big difference, and its not semantics, its the difference of intent. Harrington did not cheat in either of the recent incidents, but he was proven to be infringing a rule in one of those incidents - that doesnt make him a cheat. Elliot Saltman repeatedly "stole" distance when marking and replacing his ball on the greens, this was not an individual isolated accidental infringement but a repeated occurence of a deliberate breaking of the rules to gain from it - that is cheating.

 

[viscount17]

did any of you listen to Mickelson's comments?

he said that on all the (par 3?) tees Harrison was teeing close but checking his position and that on that hole he moved it back. Conclusive enough for me.

 

[Evesdad]

Why put yourself in such a position, surely at their level an inch or two is not going to gain them anything but could cost them a lot more! Maybe its lesson learnt for Harrington.

 

[barrybridges]

I thought that this exact situation featured in GM's rules quiz this month?

Wasn't the answer that there is no penalty but that the other players could call the player back to replay the shot?

In which case, whatever the spectator has to say is irrelevant as no complaint was made by his playing partners?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I thought that this exact situation featured in GM's rules quiz this month?

Wasn't the answer that there is no penalty but that the other players could call the player back to replay the shot?

In which case, whatever the spectator has to say is irrelevant as no complaint was made by his playing partners?

Only in matchplay, in strokeplay it's a 2 shot penalty and replay the shot

 

[19thagain]

I wonder, Mongoose, what % distance you feel Mr Saltman 'stole' on each putt and if you feel that such a small % (a) helped him to sink more putts or (b) any small change in the grass texture, ground texture due to greenkeeping/ worms/ spikes, may have negated this 'steal'?

Considering he is a pro, having come through all the scratch comps - including head to head against pedantic players, gaining his card, playing on the pro circuit and only this two players saw/reported him for 'stealing'!!

Seems strange to me but there again, Mr Harrington appears to be earning this 'stealing' reputation too.

 

[richart]

I'm with the viewer, its er, mmm, dodgy at best!

It did look that way, even Harrington admitted it looked bad. If you tee off in the middle of the tee, and the markers are far apart you do need to be extra careful. Can't see that caddies or other players would notice, as you usually stand to the side and behind someone on the tee.

I am sure it was not done to gain advantage, but it just shows how careful pros need to be, with millions watching, waiting for them to slip up.

Played in a scramble in the winter, and our team leader playing off 4,teed off the ladies, before anyone noticed. He is now called Doris, and awaiting the op'

 

[chrisd]

I wonder, Mongoose, what % distance you feel Mr Saltman 'stole' on each putt and if you feel that such a small % (a) helped him to sink more putts or (b) any small change in the grass texture, ground texture due to greenkeeping/ worms/ spikes, may have negated this 'steal'?

Considering he is a pro, having come through all the scratch comps - including head to head against pedantic players, gaining his card, playing on the pro circuit and only this two players saw/reported him for 'stealing'!!

Seems strange to me but there again, Mr Harrington appears to be earning this 'stealing' reputation too.

Lets get this absolutely straight - Saltman cheated, he got a ban, did't fight it, he deliberately did what he did!

Harrington is clearly as honest as the day is long, you know it , I know it and everyone else does too

There is a difference between the two!


Chris

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have a big issue with this trial by TV stuff. It is isn't fair that a guy going off early in the day before wall to wall TV coverage starts and every shot televised can have the low round of the day and potentially infringe like Harrington did with the ball moving or tee from the wrong place like he was alleged to have done yesterday.

The guy having a low round could potentially earn a top 10 and maybe even secure his card for next year on the back of it. Is it fair he gets away with it because no-one saw it while someone well known or in contention faces such scrutiny. It is almost setting up a competition within a competition with those being televised under worldwide scrutiny and the others not. That can't be right. It has to be an all or nothing situation. What happened a few years ago before Sky brought in coverage of most European events. Players were forced to make their own decisions with the help of the officials and live by their choice.

I know Radar has written about the subject in GM and he makes it clear those with a "reputation" are given shirt shrift amongst the other pros

 

[thecraw]

I wonder, Mongoose, what % distance you feel Mr Saltman 'stole' on each putt and if you feel that such a small % (a) helped him to sink more putts or (b) any small change in the grass texture, ground texture due to greenkeeping/ worms/ spikes, may have negated this 'steal'?

Considering he is a pro, having come through all the scratch comps - including head to head against pedantic players, gaining his card, playing on the pro circuit and only this two players saw/reported him for 'stealing'!!

Seems strange to me but there again, Mr Harrington appears to be earning this 'stealing' reputation too.

Lets get this absolutely straight - Saltman cheated, he got a ban, did't fight it, he deliberately did what he did!

Harrington is clearly as honest as the day is long, you know it , I know it and everyone else does too

There is a difference between the two!


Chris

Chris, you state it as fact that Saltman is a cheat, all it takes is two people to say you stole something, you can then find yourself convicted in a court of law for something you didn't do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9Bh-ZVAz48

Still find it hard believe Harrington was that "in the zone" that he didn't notice that or feel it.

 

[Dodger]

I wonder, Mongoose, what % distance you feel Mr Saltman 'stole' on each putt and if you feel that such a small % (a) helped him to sink more putts or (b) any small change in the grass texture, ground texture due to greenkeeping/ worms/ spikes, may have negated this 'steal'?

Considering he is a pro, having come through all the scratch comps - including head to head against pedantic players, gaining his card, playing on the pro circuit and only this two players saw/reported him for 'stealing'!!

Seems strange to me but there again, Mr Harrington appears to be earning this 'stealing' reputation too.

Lets get this absolutely straight - Saltman cheated, he got a ban, did't fight it, he deliberately did what he did!

Harrington is clearly as honest as the day is long, you know it , I know it and everyone else does too

There is a difference between the two!


Chris

Clearly?Why?Because he's a Paddy by any chance?

Dodgy as the day is long and he seems to be building up a bit of a history.I'd be keeping an eye on him if he was a playing partner of mine.....

 

[chrisd]

As far as i'm concerned if Saltman was adamant he didnt cheat he would have appealed all the way. The accusation was that he cheated and, that was not the case with Harrington, only that he may have erred.

Harringtons ball when it moved could really only be seen by slo mo HD television and the teeing at the weekend was not conclusive - i dont recall anyone claiming that he was deliberately cheating on either of these matters. When challenged on the first one he accepted and D/Q'd and, quite within his rights, didn't d/q on the teeing matter as all the tv evidence was inconclusive and he was sure that he had done nothing wrong.

Chris

 

[rgs]

As the viewer could not see the tee markers it is difficult to state if the ball was ahead of the marker.

Maybe its time a line was drawn between the markers to mark the line.

 

[Tommo21]

Chris, you state it as fact that Saltman is a cheat, all it takes is two people to say you stole something, you can then find yourself convicted in a court of law for something you didn't do.

Yeh, thats the way it works. Unless you know of some conspiracy by the two other unknown, probably never to be known again players, then Saltman is a cheat. They cannot go on any more information than his two playing partners. Saltman was not calling them liars or said they had it in for him. He’s a cheat and if two other honest players evidence is not good enough then cheats will win.

 

[viscount17]

Difference is that Saltman doesn't deny what he did, he just doesn't think it's wrong.

Bit like Smiffy's white trousers

 

[clubchamp07]

That is a real hate of mine, I dont care who I'm playing with if u tee it up infront of the sticks, I'll just walk forward, That normally does the trick........