mikejohnchapman
Challenge Tour Pro
We dropped the 10% only option and offer 3 or 4 prizes depending on the field. Gross, 10% and 20% - you can only win one prize.
Handicap Allowance Texas Scramble
- Thread starter Ridgeman
- Start date
Leftie
Tour Winner
Our Seniors scrambles are carefully "drawn" with 2 lower and 2 higher h/c players in each team. Rarely is there more than a shot or two difference between teams after 10% taken. Also 4 drives each and on par 4 and 5 holes the player who's drive is taken cannot play the next shot.
Club scrambles set an arbitrary minimum figure of total team h/cap (40 if memory serves) and any team below that are penalised with added shots on their gross score. Can't remember exact figures but maybe something like 35.1/ 40 - 1 shot, 30.1/35 - 2 shots. So, 4 players h/c's 4,5,5,6 = total 20. H/c allowance @ 10% = 2. Because they are 20 less than minimum they are penalised (say) 4 shots. They shoot gross 62, lesss 2 h/c plus 4 penalty shots + 64. Minimum 4 drives each and no second shot apply. Works well.
Club scrambles set an arbitrary minimum figure of total team h/cap (40 if memory serves) and any team below that are penalised with added shots on their gross score. Can't remember exact figures but maybe something like 35.1/ 40 - 1 shot, 30.1/35 - 2 shots. So, 4 players h/c's 4,5,5,6 = total 20. H/c allowance @ 10% = 2. Because they are 20 less than minimum they are penalised (say) 4 shots. They shoot gross 62, lesss 2 h/c plus 4 penalty shots + 64. Minimum 4 drives each and no second shot apply. Works well.
williamalex1
Money List Winner
Why not just use full handicaps ?
Leftie
Tour Winner
Errmmm. Think about it Bill.
A team of 4 all off scratch birdie every hole (not unlikely). Gross score (say) 54.
A team of 4 all off 18 bogie every hole (unlikely to be so bad). Gross score 90 - gross score less h/c 48 = score 42. Somehow I don't think you would get many low h/capers playing.
Don't forget that the calcs are done from the combined h/caps of the team
A team of 4 all off scratch birdie every hole (not unlikely). Gross score (say) 54.
A team of 4 all off 18 bogie every hole (unlikely to be so bad). Gross score 90 - gross score less h/c 48 = score 42. Somehow I don't think you would get many low h/capers playing.
Don't forget that the calcs are done from the combined h/caps of the team
williamalex1
Money List Winner
I know mate, but using the 10% with a maximum h/c of 6 favours the low h/c players every time , Errmmm, I wonder who thought that calculation up
Swango1980
Well-known member
We had exactly the same issue at our place (though thankfully I was usually on the winning side
)However, over the last few years, we decided to do a balanced draw, where a random draw is made, but with a low, mid and high handicapper in each team. Since then, it is remarkable how close the competition is. I don't just mean between the first few places. The difference between 1st and last is often only a few shots.
Swango1980
Well-known member
There is no way a team of 4 18 handicappers would shoot gross 90. More likely around par, if not lower. However, that makes your point even stronger to be fair
bunkerblaster
Member
I note R&As first involvement with scrambles. If conditions poor and more than four temps we will not play to our winter schedule. If you turn up you play, so we have a scramble with teams of 4 and 3 in same comp. 4 divide total handicap by 10 Min 4 drives each, 3 divide TH by 6 minimum 5 drives each max 7. Question: So are the recommended % 25/20/15/10 and 30/20/10 drawn for a comp with teams of both 3 and four balls?
I will do my own calculations based on both our existing and new to see the numbers.
I will do my own calculations based on both our existing and new to see the numbers.
rulefan
Tour Winner
That would seem sensible.
Crazyface
Tour Winner
We had exactly the same issue at our place (though thankfully I was usually on the winning side
However, over the last few years, we decided to do a balanced draw, where a random draw is made, but with a low, mid and high handicapper in each team. Since then, it is remarkable how close the competition is. I don't just mean between the first few places. The difference between 1st and last is often only a few shots.
Much better idea. I've stopped playing in scrambles now due to same crowd always winning
nyckuk
Newbie
We had 4 man 1/10th 3 man 1/6th 2 man 1/2th
Under WHS it going to be impossible for a 2 man team , lees shots and lower handicap ..
Under WHS it going to be impossible for a 2 man team , lees shots and lower handicap ..
rulefan
Tour Winner
What's wrong with 35% low / 14% high? What evidence have you got regarding 2 man results?
nyckuk
Newbie
Take my saturday 4 ball we play off 14,16,17,18 ...... 25,20,15,10%,,, HC=11
say 2 ball 17 & 18...... 35%, 15%,, HC=9
Think the evidence is right there .... 2 ball whats the point unless everyone is playing 2 ball
rulefan
Tour Winner
Ah. You have a variable number in each team in the same scramble comp?
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
Do you mean a 2 man team playing in a 4 man competition due to lack of players? If yes then the advised allowances are not for this situation. The advised allowances are for a comp where every team has the same number of players.
nyckuk
Newbie
All our scrambles are in the winter , so quite often someone pulls out for what ever reason.
Not sure if our club will make its own allowances then ??? If we only have a 3 ball that week ,we cant enter
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The club should make its own rules for teams of less than 3 than in 3 man comp or less than 4 in a 4 man comp.
rulefan
Tour Winner
My apologies to all. Decimals would appear to be the recommended way in scrambles.
GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I
IV The Playing Handicap and its use in Stroke Allowances for Competition Purposes – Team Formats of Play
Texas Scramble
Table 2
Total Playing Handicap 6.3
October 2021
A very late Edit:
Re-reading this I realise it may be ambiguous. The comment above relates to the Playing Handicap of an individual team member.
These are calculated to 2 dec places. The Team handicap is the sum of all the individuals and then rounded conventionally to a whole number
GUIDANCE ON THE WHS RULES OF HANDICAPPING AS APPLIED WITHIN GB&I
IV The Playing Handicap and its use in Stroke Allowances for Competition Purposes – Team Formats of Play
Texas Scramble
Table 2
Total Playing Handicap 6.3
October 2021
A very late Edit:
Re-reading this I realise it may be ambiguous. The comment above relates to the Playing Handicap of an individual team member.
These are calculated to 2 dec places. The Team handicap is the sum of all the individuals and then rounded conventionally to a whole number
Last edited:
KenL
Tour Rookie
Edited to correct an error!
Dragging up an old thread, sorry.
Recent members scramble at my club used 10% of the sum of the handicaps.
Women players all got an 2 extra strokes. Men played off medal tees and women off reds.
Off these tees:
Rating for men 72.3, slope 128
Women 72.7, slope 126.
Is giving women 2 extra shots each correct (if there is such a thing) in a 4 person scramble?
Thanks
Dragging up an old thread, sorry.
Recent members scramble at my club used 10% of the sum of the handicaps.
Women players all got an 2 extra strokes. Men played off medal tees and women off reds.
Off these tees:
Rating for men 72.3, slope 128
Women 72.7, slope 126.
Is giving women 2 extra shots each correct (if there is such a thing) in a 4 person scramble?
Thanks
Last edited:
rulefan
Tour Winner
If they start off by not using the correct formula it doesn't really matter if the rest is right or not.
However
6.2b Calculation When Multiple Tees with Different Pars Are Used in a Competition
For the purposes of this Rule:
* Stroke play refers to the net score, gross score or Maximum Score formats of play
* Stableford and Par/Bogey formats of play are considered separately.
When a competition is played from two or more sets of tees (such as mixed gender or mixed ability events), depending on the format of play and any difference in Course Rating between tees, additional strokes may need to be added to the standard calculation of the Playing Handicap for equity purposes and to determine finishing positions, results and prizes.
(i) Stroke Play and Match Play formats (where results are recorded as gross or net scores).
* For an 18-hole round: A player competing from a set of tees with a higher Course Rating must receive additional strokes for the round, equal to the difference between the Course Rating of the tees they are playing and the tees with the lowest Course Rating.
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