Hand path vs Shaft path

[Junior]

is this what is called being "laid off" ? I think you have to be careful flattening the shaft as it could get stuck behind you leading to flippy hands !!

Personally, I just try to take both the hands and club up and down on the same plane a'la Steve Stricker.

 

[virtuocity]

is this what is called being "laid off" ?

Not sure. As far as I was aware, if the shaft plane flattened on the backswing, it was classed as "laid off" and often resulted in a huge over the top move to 'correct it'.

But I think this is a little different when it's initiated on the downswing. Not sure to be honest!!!

 

[Snelly]

Hand path? Swing path? Shaft path?

Up the garden path? You're on the wrong path. Stop being path-etic!


No wonder you're off 20 if you think this is something to consider! I would say that having a detailed understanding of hand and shaft paths is entirely irrelevant to having a half decent round of golf.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Hand path? Swing path? Shaft path?

Up the garden path? You're on the wrong path. Stop being path-etic!


No wonder you're off 20 if you think this is something to consider! I would say that having a detailed understanding of hand and shaft paths is entirely irrelevant to having a half decent round of golf.

Forthright as ever Snelly :rofl:

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Does anyone make a conscious effort to flatten the shaft path (to the hand path) on the downswing? Is this something you've ever been taught?

If you are thinking about this during your swing then there are fundamental issues elsewhere that you should be correcting first.

Swing back, swing through......simple turning motion :thup:

 

[guest100718]

I know what you mean , if you look at most Pro swings from down the line you can see that in transition there is a marked flattening of the club.

I have noticed as my swing has improved in going from an OTT move to something that looks like a half decent swing there is also a flattening out of the club as i move into the downswing. it's not something I have practiced though, its juts a by product of a better swing.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

I just get a little bored of the "go out and play.... just swing the club back and forward..... why are you making it hard on yourself.... go practise your short game" comments.

There is actually a very good reason people say these things....it's because if you adopt them, chances are you will play better golf.

Paralysis by analysis. It's fine for pros that can spend hours on their swings but we are all weekend fun golfers so we have to work on the simple basics :thup:

 

[richy]

How very dare you talk about the mechanics of the golf swing on a golf forum

 

[virtuocity]

Hand path? Swing path? Shaft path?

Up the garden path? You're on the wrong path. Stop being path-etic!


No wonder you're off 20 if you think this is something to consider! I would say that having a detailed understanding of hand and shaft paths is entirely irrelevant to having a half decent round of golf.

Helpful, thanks. Do you think your shaft plane is flatter on the downswing than the backswing?

 

[virtuocity]

How very dare you talk about the mechanics of the golf swing on a golf forum

I know!

I just since it's nearly the weekend that I would do something wacky instead of the usual "NEEEEWWWW SHINNEEEEYS", "What bag of tees should I buy" or "Can anyone recommend a pro in North Googinsville" threads.....

 

[virtuocity]

There is actually a very good reason people say these things....it's because if you adopt them, chances are you will play better golf.

Paralysis by analysis. It's fine for pros that can spend hours on their swings but we are all weekend fun golfers so we have to work on the simple basics :thup:

:thup:

So without deviating too much from the forum topic, I just swing back, then swing through. Is that it?

 

[Khamelion]

Apologies for the confusion.

On picture 3 (top of the backswing) to picture 4 (downswing) the path of the hands is the same, but the shaft path is flattened a little (I think).

Is it? Do you not think it's possible to practise a move, then ingrain it so you don't need to think about it then validate this via video recordings and tweak accordingly.

Do you remember the first time behind the wheel of a car? Spaghetti central.

I can now drink coffee and sing power ballads whilst driving. Go me.

Yes, it is possible to practice. In the pictures the golfer is creating lag, by "dropping" the club behind his right hip.

This is something I'm currently working on. going back many months, my swing and swing path was all about power, hit the little white ball as hard as possible, to do this I would start my swing by turning my shoulders, my right shoulder would come forward, my arms would come away from my body, the club would be cast out and the swing path was massively out to in, the result 8/10 times was a mahoosive slice.

Now to try and get an in to out path, I've slowed down a lot, the first action on the down swing is to drop the club to what feels behind my right hip, I keep my left arm in tight across my chest, then as I transfer my weight, the club comes inside, I unhinge my wrists, make contact with the ball, let the club follow through for a full release away and what feels like slightly right of the target line.

It's working for me, I'm no longer trying to power the ball away, now my swing is slower and I just swing through the ball, the result is more consistent striking and straighter if not slightly drawn ball flight.

 

[One Planer]

:thup:

So without deviating too much from the forum topic, I just swing back, then swing through. Is that it?

Or, to phrase it another way.

What would you learn if someone did make a concious effort to flatten the shaft path?

If you make a good turn to the top, then sequence your downswing in the correct order (I.E From the ground up), the shaft will move naturally, on plane, back to the ball, and through to finish. The how and the why don't matter IMHO.

Repeating the feat consistently is when it gets tricky.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

:thup:

So without deviating too much from the forum topic, I just swing back, then swing through. Is that it?

Yep! Try it

ps....don't forget to make sure you are looking at the ball at impact. It really is that simple!

 

[Snelly]

Helpful, thanks. Do you think your shaft plane is flatter on the downswing than the backswing?

I am glad you find my advice useful. Sometimes the truth, however painful, can be just what is needed. :thup:


Is the shaft plane the same as the swing plane? If so then I understand what it is and if it isn't I don't understand what you are talking about. Is it flatter on the downswing? I don't know.



In a wider sense, I am not trying to be hurtful or mean to you. I just think that you are looking at a minor detail here that probably won't help you at all. It looks like you've had a good year in coming down nearly 3.5 shots but what is it that is causing your scores to be high? Off the tee? Irons? Pitching? Chipping? Putting? There must be something not quite right? Something more fundamental? Changing the angle of your swing is pretty major surgery and there must be a way to achieve a quicker win with so many shots to play with, don't you think?

 

[virtuocity]

I am glad you find my advice useful. Sometimes the truth, however painful, can be just what is needed. :thup:


Is the shaft plane the same as the swing plane? If so then I understand what it is and if it isn't I don't understand what you are talking about. Is it flatter on the downswing? I don't know.



In a wider sense, I am not trying to be hurtful or mean to you. I just think that you are looking at a minor detail here that probably won't help you at all. It looks like you've had a good year in coming down nearly 3.5 shots but what is it that is causing your scores to be high? Off the tee? Irons? Pitching? Chipping? Putting? There must be something not quite right? Something more fundamental? Changing the angle of your swing is pretty major surgery and there must be a way to achieve a quicker win with so many shots to play with, don't you think?

Dammit I just typed a huge reply and hit reply and got logged out GRRRRR.

Never mind.

Thanks for the reply Snelly. To keep it short and sweet, I leave about 10 shots out there on the green, in bunkers and generally from 60 yards in. I struggled at the start of the year (my first year) to play to 28. Delighted to say that I'm now playing to around 18 handicap. Not bad without a short game I guess. Just want to concentrate on making sure my swing is consistent before even looking at that side of things.

Would you concede that whilst you don't give a stuff about swing mechanics that you probably take the club away smoothly, get into a good position in the backswing, take the club back down the same path and deliver a square clubface with forward shaftlean at impact? You're a good player- better than most will ever be and you've achieved this by hitting a million balls. That's great and trust me, I love hitting golf balls too. It's just that I ENJOY DISCUSSING SWING MECHANICS. I like the ins and outs of them. It's one of the most fun part of the game for me. Just because people think that it's important to swing back and forwards with no other thoughts does not take away from the fact that there are very similar things going on in good player's swings and that knowing these things is not going to disadvantage one in any way.

I would say (and I'm mega guilty of this) that I believe that trying to hit the positions of Rose, Woods and McIlroy is a silly pursuit. I couldn't hit these positions in slow motion!!! I doing believe that if you find a way of hitting the ball with one type of spin (even a slice), consistently hitting ball then ground and achieving enough distance to play a course then you should stick with it and get yourself a short game. AGAIN THOUGH- I do enjoy talking about positions, angles, gear and bio-mechanics. It's my hobby.

Oh- If anyone could point me towards where I posted that I was going to try to incorporate the shallowing of the shaft into my swing, that would be great. I wrongly thought that others enjoyed talking about tiny bits of the golf swing as much as I do. The faux outrage of the 20-something handicapper daring to get technical as if it was going to turn him into a pro by this time next week should have been expected.

Anyone recommend a pair of warm and waterproof socks?

 

[Khamelion]

See my reply Virtuocity, I enjoy learning about the swing mechanics, it's what helps me understand what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.

 

[virtuocity]

See my reply Virtuocity, I enjoy learning about the swing mechanics, it's what helps me understand what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.

Down by the right hip you say? I take it that's FEEL rather than REAL! Any changes to distance?

 

[Snelly]

Dammit I just typed a huge reply and hit reply and got logged out GRRRRR.

Never mind.

Thanks for the reply Snelly. To keep it short and sweet, I leave about 10 shots out there on the green, in bunkers and generally from 60 yards in. I struggled at the start of the year (my first year) to play to 28. Delighted to say that I'm now playing to around 18 handicap. Not bad without a short game I guess. Just want to concentrate on making sure my swing is consistent before even looking at that side of things.

Would you concede that whilst you don't give a stuff about swing mechanics that you probably take the club away smoothly, get into a good position in the backswing, take the club back down the same path and deliver a square clubface with forward shaftlean at impact? You're a good player- better than most will ever be and you've achieved this by hitting a million balls. That's great and trust me, I love hitting golf balls too. It's just that I ENJOY DISCUSSING SWING MECHANICS. I like the ins and outs of them. It's one of the most fun part of the game for me. Just because people think that it's important to swing back and forwards with no other thoughts does not take away from the fact that there are very similar things going on in good player's swings and that knowing these things is not going to disadvantage one in any way.

I would say (and I'm mega guilty of this) that I believe that trying to hit the positions of Rose, Woods and McIlroy is a silly pursuit. I couldn't hit these positions in slow motion!!! I doing believe that if you find a way of hitting the ball with one type of spin (even a slice), consistently hitting ball then ground and achieving enough distance to play a course then you should stick with it and get yourself a short game. AGAIN THOUGH- I do enjoy talking about positions, angles, gear and bio-mechanics. It's my hobby.

Oh- If anyone could point me towards where I posted that I was going to try to incorporate the shallowing of the shaft into my swing, that would be great. I wrongly thought that others enjoyed talking about tiny bits of the golf swing as much as I do. The faux outrage of the 20-something handicapper daring to get technical as if it was going to turn him into a pro by this time next week should have been expected.

Anyone recommend a pair of warm and waterproof socks?

Hmmm.

Quite a lot of stuff in there. If that is short and sweet, I would hate to see what detailed and comprehensive looks like!

I will go through your points in order - apologies if this looks succinct at times...

Your faults are from 60 yards in it would seem. As a first step, find a stock shot that works for you from this range and try and hit the middle of the green every time, forgetting where the flag is. By stock shot I mean either a three quarter wedge or 9 iron. Lower loft if you prefer lower trajectories, and practice this on the practice ground until you can regularly hit balls from varying distances back to your practice bag or brolly. Think of it like a long chip instead of a full shot. It doesn't take too long to develop a feel for distance if you practice like this but it does take time and a bit of dedication. Once proficient, you can take this onto the course and de-risk shots from 60 yards considerably.

Bunker shots are easy. Stand open, open the face. Imagine when you address the ball that you are looking at a fried egg in the sand and that the ball is the yolk. Hit firmly and positively down into the sand, with the aim of hitting the egg white. Let the weight of the shot take the club through to a finish. The ball will invariably be on the green.

Putting. Watch the club hit the ball.

Next, it is not true to say I don't give a stuff about swing mechanics. I know what the top of my backswing needs to look like, I know how to address the ball and when I play well, the tempo of my swing is correct. The last part is the variable that governs my day's golf. If the timing is there, my golf is good and if not, it is poor. Just trying to make the point that the finer details don't really count in my opinion. The key positions do though.

Good that you get some joy from swing mechanics although why this is the best part of the game for you will always remain an unfathomable mystery to me. Where you and I have widely differing opinions is that I do not think that understanding fine swing details will improve performance. I just don't see that. Practice with a purpose is what is required.

Nor do I agree that trying to copy the swing positions of a pro is a silly idea. I reckon I learnt a lot by trying to copy Tom Watson or Steve Elkington. No ball striking involved although I did used to try and clip a tee out of the ground, just trying to look at the reflection in our garage window at the top of my swing to see if it looked like theirs. Forget Woods, his swing is tough to copy but surely Tom Watson's isn't? He still has a beautiful swing. Try and copy it. Watch a TV picture of his swing, try and get the same position at the top and copy his tempo as he swings. It can be very helpful indeed.

Finally, I am not outraged, faux or otherwise. Just trying to help, even if it looks like I am taking the proverbial.

 

[virtuocity]

Good post :thup: