Hamilton Penalty

[Cernunnos]

Interesting, having been involved in motorsport for many years I just can see how he got any penalty. Cutting corners happens all the time and as long as the driver gives up the advantage gained there is no problem. He was catching up hand over fist. He was right behind Kimi and made a move that admittedly was not on. The track position of the Ferrari left him not option but to cut the bus stop. You actually see Hamilton turn the steering wheel real quick when he realises there’s no room. The rules are clear on this if you get an advantage then you have to give it back. Hamilton done just that and duly past Kimi again after giving up that advantage. Kimi was caught napping, he was never expecting Hamilton to attack right away. Did Ferrari expect Hamilton to wait for as few corners to prove he gave up that position.

I know this for sure, if Hamilton waited until the following corner to pass him we wouldn’t be talking about this. Hamilton was too switched on for Kimi…..and the rules officials. The whole thing stinks, big time.

It’s like golf, if you break a rule then you get penalised. Hamilton’s penalty was to give up that position, but it doesn’t mean he can’t shoot an eagle at the next hole.

Tell me of another situation where a driver, after giving up his position, is then given a further penalty just because he was too smart.

Missed the live coverage, but saw the highlights & I must say I concur wholeheartedly with what you are saying.

I personally don't think much to hamilton, though he is clearly a very tallented driver, but he does seem to have been penalised for doing the right thing. I don't buy the dirty air thing someone else posted about, as Hamilton was driving much quicker (as usual)than whom he was coming up to pass, and would as you say have easily passed at the next anyway.

In the latter half of this season he seems to have found extra form & speed, the guy is just a racin' demon. Would have been great to see Hamilton racing against both Senna, Schewee & Mansell in their primes in the current or even past F1 cars. Now there would be a 200 mile race worth seeing.


Coming back to the Hamilton Penalty, I doubt by the end of the season if things carry on formwise as they are, it will make much difference to the driver contest.

I'll also echo the glad when coverage comes back to the BBC I just hope the BBC has its act together in the way it films & covers the F1 season, as judging by their coverage of golf events they want to go back to filmschool

 

[medwayjon]

Madandra, subtlety not you middle name today then mate.

You have said exactly what I have always thought.

He has never manouvered himself into the best car by virtue of skill, he has been Ron Dennis' pet project since he was a kid and the only way he was ever going to go was into the mclaren F1 team for him.

As for GP2, half the drivers are nobodies, they are people backed by families with wads of cash who pay for them to drive. The same has happened for many years in F1 with the minnow teams actually charging drivers to race for them.

Just becuase they are drivers doesnt mean they are good.

Hamilton has had his whole career laid on a plate for him, he has always had the best of everything and hasnt had to work for jack.

 

[medwayjon]

This is going to be so controversial and I am no way prejudiced on any grounds but........

Would hamilton have got where he is as easily if he was white???

lewis was heavily touted as "the first black man to drive in F1"

TBH I dont care what colour or creed somebody is, a person is just a person so commenting on ethnicity/sexuality/religion in relation to a person is completely irrelevant to me.

F1 has always been a sport that has had little interest from ethnic minority groups, infact racing as a whole hasnt, and all of a sudden they are being actively targeted as a new audience.

karting schools are actively marketing at ethnic youngsters to "be the next lewis hamilton" there is evidence to back this up.

Perhaps I am just too cynical!

 

[madandra]

Rather than him being black I think they are modelling everything about him on Tiger Woods. The lad is being led a merry dance by his father who reminds me of Michelle Wie and the Williams sisters over powering fathers. I want the best for my daughter but I get the impression that their fathers want some of the limelight too.

 

[HartleyHare]

i was at the Istanbul grand prix in Hamiltons final year before he moved to F1.

from 18th (i think) in a 15 lap (i think, i know it was less than 20) to finishing 2nd he was phenominal!
overtaking left right and centre in a car exactly the same as all the rest of them had.

the GP race afterwards was dull in comparison, all anyone was talking about on the coach back to Istanbul was Hamiltons amazing drive. that includes poles, germans, swedish, not just English.

he has been groomed and nurtured but that is because he is an amazing talent.

McLaren blew Hamiltons season last year with a couple of dodgy calls towards the end of the year. Hamiltons 1st year he's not gonna override their decisions is he?

Hakinnen was in the best car when he was winning, before that he did nowt for years.

like i say i'm not a massive fan of Hamilton as a person (far too smarmy)but as a driver, he's brilliant.

 

[toonarmy]

This thread has some of the most narrow-minded, bigoted clap-trap of any on here.

You don't have to like Hamilton to acknowledge he is a phenomenal driver. Best car or not, he is top class. Call me an idiot, but generally the best drivers get to drive the best cars. It's what the manufacturers want after all.

To label Hamilton a 'pet project' and to even suggest his colour has something to do with it is just ludicrous.

Quite why Ferrari fans are so full of bile has always been a mystery to me. I'm no F1 fan, but I recognise class when I see it - and it's something sorely lacking in Ferrari and its fans.

Regardless of the relative rights and wrongs of his manouevre, had Hamilton been in a Ferrari and Raikkonen in a Maclaren, there would have been no penalty. It is for this reason (and others) that I don't acknowledge F1 as a sport and more of an entertainment product.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I think that this weekends decision is harsh but probably correct. He did yield place but not really the advantage aswell!
(Some tracks put small barriers in chicanes - why not all of them?)

The one earlier in the season however was wrong (where he was done for cutting a corner whilst overtaking - can't remember where or who). That sort of decision will stop people trying to overtake for fear of the rules officials!

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but it does sometimes seem Maclaren/Hamilton get the harsh judgements. But that could be because they are at the pointy end and therefore more prominent anyway.

As for - is he any good? Yes he is potentially excellent, very adventurous and exciting (and will probably kill himself trying a risky manouvere oneday).

Does it help that he's in the best car? Yes, just like when Button's BAR was putting him on most podiums. They are all top drivers (even Piquet Jnr) but the best car & team combinations will put you near the top.

Is he annoying? Yes

Is it because he is black? No

 

[medwayjon]

This thread has some of the most narrow-minded, bigoted clap-trap of any on here.

"Bigot - A person who is completely intolerant of any creed or belief that differs from their own"

Hence to comment that certain views are bigoted or narrow-minded is quite frankly absurd.

 

[brendy]

Hamilton was unfairly penalised, if you watched the race, he was quickest out of the block on a damp track (albeit he spun it) at the time of the incident though, hamilton was the faster man, raikkonen was actually back and past him twice before spinning of not once but twice eventually smashing his car beyond operational use.
Im not a huge Hamilton fan but I believe in fair sportsmanship, he isnt a dirty driver and made an adrenalin fuelled decision to try a manouvre that didnt pay off though noone got damaged and both raced on, this is motorsport, watch some of the tussles in touring cars, wheels get knocked off and cars get mangled yet the stewards let play run on unless it was an absolutely horrific manouvre that was intended to hurt or hurt driver and car.
Saying Mansell was a driver and slating Hamilton isnt on, yes mansell was a great racer, he had his whole career to prove it, Hamilton is in his second year of f1 and already people are judging his ability.
Thats like saying Rory McIlroy is crap, give the guy a chance.

 

[vig]

Having read all the threads and opinions, which differ greatly. Only Brendy has hit the nail on the head.
He is still a rookie, a boy in only his 2nd year and barring 2 bad calls in this first year in with the big boys he would have been champ.
How can anyone say he isn't a talented driver is beyond me. Exceptional, great? that is to come but he does have talent without doubt.
The best car? Tell me anyone from the greats, mansells, porsts, senna's etc who won the title in a bad car?...... No One!!!!!! if you don't have a good car you don't win, simple.

Lets judge the lad in a few years.

BTW i think he didn't do hiself any favours by upping sticks after making a statement that he wouldn't but don't all F1 drivers live in Monaco or Switzerland?

 

[HartleyHare]

Tell me anyone from the greats, mansells, porsts, senna's etc who won the title in a bad car

Schumacher!

the Benetton was a good car, but it was Schumacher who the title, not the car.
anybody else in that car wouldn't have got a sniff!

 

[Cernunnos]

I think hamilton has done extremely well for his second year in F1 & I think the shakey start to season two is down to the whole juggernaught of the press & coverage causing a few mental problems for a while.

He was slatted, for a few rash incidents, like the pit lane one not long ago, but again its his second year in F1 so we need to take that slight inexperience with the world of F1 in to account.

I personally may not like him, finding him somewhat annoying. But wow, can he drive & He is bringing back an exitement F1 has been missing for some time.

I think we all like to slate the tallented, & Its down to envy pure & simple & I know I'm envyous of the guy in much the same way I am envious of all the top exponents of any sport. It is really so easy to be tempted to knock them.

The guy is in a spotlight & he only has to take half a step the wrong way & the press & media will slate him. & Ferrari being what they are will look for any way to improve their lot, they are exponents at the political game within the sport of motor racing & you can't blame them for trying. On the other hand McClaren arn't far behind in those stakes & in the long run do themselves no real favours with the back biting.

Lets give the guy a break & let him race & entertain us all.

 

[EchtLoon]

Tell me anyone from the greats, mansells, porsts, senna's etc who won the title in a bad car

Schumacher!

the Benetton was a good car, but it was Schumacher who the title, not the car.
anybody else in that car wouldn't have got a sniff!

Can't agree with that, BEnnetton were a good team back then, and in '94 Jos Verstappen was NOT a world class driver, and neither thje following year was Johnny Herbert, yet he still managed two wins in a car that wasn't as good as Williams (or a very poor Ferrari)? It was as good as any imo.

 

[vig]

Tell me anyone from the greats, mansells, prosts, senna's etc who won the title in a bad car

Schumacher!

the Benetton was a good car, but it was Schumacher who the title, not the car.
anybody else in that car wouldn't have got a sniff!

He doesn't count, he's German!!!!!

 

[Herbie]

Personally I didnt see any infringement that justified such a penalty. In formula 1 all you need is a non stop drive through to lose any hope of regaining anything.There are so many rules and so many interpretations that it gets silly sometimes. eventually sports will become less motivated and thrilling by the endless rules and rule changes and rule interpretations. In some ways its similar in golf, there are many silly even nonsensical rulings applied from time to time in golf. Golf is a very very simple game that could have a handful of simple rules but try telling that to the ruling bodies in the game lol.