GUR Question

[Matty]

I think I know what the answer to this one will be but I just wanted a double check.

Longish par three at my home course is having some drainage work done on a bunker to the front right of the green and it's tapes off as GUR. In this area the green capers have left a large wooden board covering a reasonably deep branch they've dug.

So, fellow competitor tees off and we clearly hear his ball hit this wooden board and it bounces way further than you'd expect into an unknown position from the tee. A provisional is played to save walking back if we don't find the first ball. On waling up to the green we see this wooden board in the GUR area and then find the ball some 25 yards further on behind a bush with an unplayable lie.

So, the wooden board being struck - it's just 'rub of the green' and FC can now decide to play the original ball or work back to the tee and play his third (provisional can't be played as original ball is found). Have I got that right?

 

[bobmac]

Correct.
He can also take a penalty drop out of the bush as I'm sure you know

 

[BTatHome]

Correct, however replaying from the tee is just one of options for unplayable ball (two club lengths, or back in straight line with ball position and pin inline being the alternatives)

 

[winty57]

yes you are correct

 

[Matty]

Thanks for the confirmation and a reminder of the other options. Seems a bit of a shame because if that wooden board had not been there it would have been a free drop out of the GUR. As it stood though it was a penalty of dropping out of the bush, taking on a nightmare shot or going back to the tee. Still I guess that's why it's called 'rub of the green' some you win some you lose.

 

[atticusfinch]

Still I guess that's why it's called 'rub of the green' some you win some you lose.

Sorry to be pedantic (but we are here to learn ) ROG really doesn't mean that, though it may be bad luck it doesn't mean that. http://www.ruleshistory.com/rub.html

 

[KenL]

Remember drop can't be nearer the hole. Sometimes in bushes it can be tricky to find a suitable spot.

 

[rulefan]

So, the wooden board being struck - it's just 'rub of the green'
Have I got that right?

Spot on. A "rub of the green" occurs when a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency (see Rule 19-1).

 

[SammmeBee]

Remember drop can't be nearer the hole.

I can think of one situation this in not true......

 

[rulefan]

I can think of one situation this in not true......

When playing under Rule 28 ?

 

[KenL]

Please enlighten us...

 

[SammmeBee]

When playing under Rule 28 ?

No....for GUR

 

[BTatHome]

I can only think of a drop zone situation.

 

[rulefan]

No....for GUR

The ball was in a bush not in GUR.

 

[Matty]

Sorry to be pedantic (but we are here to learn ) ROG really doesn't mean that, though it may be bad luck it doesn't mean that. http://www.ruleshistory.com/rub.html

Spot on. A "rub of the green" occurs when a ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency (see Rule 19-1).

Hmm, are these not contradictions? And reading further 'rub of the green' in the defined sense applies to 'inside agencies' which in term appears to refer to people rather than objects. So it a strict rules sense it isn't 'rub of the green' but it is an unfortunate case of bad luck.

 

[rulefan]

Hmm, are these not contradictions? And reading further 'rub of the green' in the defined sense applies to 'inside agencies' which in term appears to refer to people rather than objects. So it a strict rules sense it isn't 'rub of the green' but it is an unfortunate case of bad luck.

Rub of the green as defined in the Rules of Golf, which is the only definition that is relevant to this forum, refers to 'outside agencies'. The Rules of Golf define an 'outside agency' as follows.

Outside Agency
In match play, an "outside agency" is any agency other than either the player's or opponent's side, anycaddie of either side, any ball played by either side at the hole being played or any equipment of eitherside.

In stroke play, an outside agency is any agency other than the competitor's side, any caddie of the side, any ball played by the side at the hole being played or any equipment of the side.

An outside agency includes a referee, a marker, an observer and a forecaddie. Neither wind nor water is an outside agency.

This clearly includes people but excludes certain objects (balls and equipment). This means that all other objects are included in the definition.

Where did you find a reference to 'inside' agencies and a definition of them?

 

[MashieNiblick]

Two following decisions confirm that an object can be an outside agency


Decision 19-1/1 says that a ball deflected by a direction post is a "rub of the green".

Q. A ball is deflected by a direction post. What is the ruling?

A. It is a rub of the green and the ball must be played as it lies, without penalty.


Decision 18-1/6 indicates that although wind is not an outside agency, tumbleweed blown by the wind is.

Q. A tumbleweed blowing across the course strikes a ball at rest and knocks it into the hole. What is the procedure?

A. In the circumstances, a tumbleweed is an outside agency. Rule 18-1 applies and the ball must be replaced without penalty.

Interesting to note how the rules treat the action of an outside agency on a ball in motion and a ball at rest differently.

 

[backwoodsman]

Interesting to note how the rules treat the action of an outside agency on a ball in motion and a ball at rest differently.

Not really? Is it not more the the difference between a ball at rest and a ball in motion generally - and regardless of who/what/how it got moved?

 

[MashieNiblick]

Not really? Is it not more the the difference between a ball at rest and a ball in motion generally - and regardless of who/what/how it got moved?

Yes, indeed, that is the at the heart of it and it is that which in turn gives rise the different outcomes from the two scenarios. I probably didn't word it as well as I might.

 

[Matty]

Rub of the green as defined in the Rules of Golf, which is the only definition that is relevant to this forum, refers to 'outside agencies'. The Rules of Golf define an 'outside agency' as follows.

Outside Agency
In match play, an "outside agency" is any agency other than either the player's or opponent's side, anycaddie of either side, any ball played by either side at the hole being played or any equipment of eitherside.

In stroke play, an outside agency is any agency other than the competitor's side, any caddie of the side, any ball played by the side at the hole being played or any equipment of the side.

An outside agency includes a referee, a marker, an observer and a forecaddie. Neither wind nor water is an outside agency.

This clearly includes people but excludes certain objects (balls and equipment). This means that all other objects are included in the definition.

Where did you find a reference to 'inside' agencies and a definition of them?

I didn't find anything about inside agencies - I just failed to type what I meant! And what I meant was 'outside agencies'! Apologies.