GUR/Lost Ball

[JonnyGutteridge]

Hi all,

Today I hit a shot into a newly built tee on our course, the surrounds of the tee feature heather and long grass, but it is currently all designated as GUR.

I could not find the ball, but it was in no dispute that the ball was within the GUR and not lost elsewhere.

I asked my PP’s to google the rule whilst I ran back to take another approach shot, and when I returned they said the rules were that you had to continue with the same ball. So being unable to do this means you have to take stroke and distance penalty.

Now, I’ve had a google myself and it looks like the consensus is that I should have been entitled to a free drop, in the designated GUR drop zone?

If so, I’m very disappointed with my PP’s. I felt sure this was the rule at that time due to previous experience but they disagreed, and if they managed to find incorrect info as well to reinforce that, it leaves a bit of a sour taste.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

If ever in doubt, in competition, play the two ball rule and seek clarification from the club or committee

 

[JonnyGutteridge]

If ever in doubt, in competition, play the two ball rule and seek clarification from the club or committee

That was my suggestion initially, when there was a dispute - have done that previously. It was only when someone offered to google it and they confirmed (incorrectly it seems) on the ruling that I backed down. Kinda felt it would have made me look silly after he’s just kindly offered to read up and clarify, to just go and do my own thing anyway. Guess I look silly now.

 

[Colin L]

No, you don't look silly, but you were misled.

The lesson learned is not to google a ruling but to go to https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/pages/the-rules-of-golf and look for the rule from a source that knows what it's talking about.
In this case, by the way, the rule you would find for your situation is 16.1e

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I don't think this has changed for a long time. If it's known or virtually certain the ball is in GUR it can't be "lost". You were entitled to a drop in the designated zone without penalty.

I'm not sure why your playing partners would have thought any different if you all agreed it was definately in there.

At the end of the day it was your call not theirs or their Google search.

 

[rulefan]

Someone didn't watch the final episode of Line of Duty

 

[DickInShorts]

Someone didn't watch the final episode of Line of Duty

So now we know who is really H - wasn’t Buckells - it’s Mike Chapman!!

 

[jim8flog]

Hi all,

Today I hit a shot into a newly built tee on our course, the surrounds of the tee feature heather and long grass, but it is currently all designated as GUR.

I could not find the ball, but it was in no dispute that the ball was within the GUR and not lost elsewhere.

I asked my PP’s to google the rule whilst I ran back to take another approach shot, and when I returned they said the rules were that you had to continue with the same ball. So being unable to do this means you have to take stroke and distance penalty.

Now, I’ve had a google myself and it looks like the consensus is that I should have been entitled to a free drop, in the designated GUR drop zone?

If so, I’m very disappointed with my PP’s. I felt sure this was the rule at that time due to previous experience but they disagreed, and if they managed to find incorrect info as well to reinforce that, it leaves a bit of a sour taste.

IMO

The situation is worse than you probably realise

When you ran back to play another ball you have in effect played from the wrong place and would get a 2 shot penalty regardless of what your mates said. It could be considered a serious breach of playing from the wrong place which is a DQ penalty.

Your mates are not responsible for advising you on the rules and
No Right to Decide Rules Issues by Agreement. If a referee or the Committee is not available in a reasonable time to help with a Rules issue you have no right to decide a Rules issue by agreement and any such agreement you may reach is not binding on any player,

 

[azazel]

IMO

The situation is worse than you probably realise

When you ran back to play another ball you have in effect played from the wrong place and would get a 2 shot penalty regardless of what your mates said. It could be considered a serious breach of playing from the wrong place which is a DQ penalty.

Your mates are not responsible for advising you on the rules and
No Right to Decide Rules Issues by Agreement. If a referee or the Committee is not available in a reasonable time to help with a Rules issue you have no right to decide a Rules issue by agreement and any such agreement you may reach is not binding on any player,

Surely going back and playing another is just stroke and distance, which you're entitled to take at any time and therefore isn't playing from the wrong place at all?

 

[jim8flog]

Surely going back and playing another is just stroke and distance, which you're entitled to take at any time and therefore isn't playing from the wrong place at all?

You are right, my apologies

I found another paragraph I had missed

e. Relief for Ball Not Found but in or on Abnormal Course Condition
If a player’s ball has not been found and it is known or virtually certain that the ball came to rest in or on an abnormal course condition on the course, the player may use this relief option instead of taking stroke-and-distance relief:

 

[bobmac]

You are right, my apologies

I found another paragraph I had missed

e. Relief for Ball Not Found but in or on Abnormal Course Condition
If a player’s ball has not been found and it is known or virtually certain that the ball came to rest in or on an abnormal course condition on the course, the player may use this relief option instead of taking stroke-and-distance relief:

Don't you come on here apologising for being wrong...just move the goalposts

 

[jim8flog]

Some times when reading the rules I find myself on a one track vein of thought and sometimes I forget the unplayable option of stroke and distance.

 

[rulefan]

Some times when reading the rules I find myself on a one track vein of thought and sometimes I forget the unplayable option of stroke and distance.

When refereeing it amazes me the number of players who have a blank about that option when trying to figure out how to deal with a ball stuck in the middle of a large low growing tree

 

[salfordlad]

Some times when reading the rules I find myself on a one track vein of thought and sometimes I forget the unplayable option of stroke and distance.

Minor point: it would be stroke and distance here (assuming requirements of Rule 14.6 were met). To do "unplayable option of stroke and distance", the original ball must be found.

 

[salfordlad]

Now, I’ve had a google myself and it looks like the consensus is that I should have been entitled to a free drop, in the designated GUR drop zone?

Use of the drop zone was either a) optional or b) compulsory, as guided by the wording of the Local Rule. The default is optional unless the Committee specifies otherwise. If not compulsory, the player may also use the 16.1e relief option.

 

[rulie]

When refereeing it amazes me the number of players who have a blank about that option when trying to figure out how to deal with a ball stuck in the middle of a large low growing tree

When I'm refereeing and see in the player's eyes that he or she is confused or drawing a blank, out of courtesy I will ask, "would you like to know our options for unplayable (or penalty area, or abnormal course condition etc).
While we teach our players to ask the referee a couple of questions,
- are you a referee for this event?
- what are my options here?
not all players remember these questions - when it can be seen in their confusion and blank stare, I will take the initiative and ask. After all, referees are there to help the players play within the Rules, without giving the players advice on how they should proceed.

 

[jim8flog]

Minor point: it would be stroke and distance here (assuming requirements of Rule 14.6 were met). To do "unplayable option of stroke and distance", the original ball must be found.

See post # 11 Cut and paste from the rule book