GUR - lost ball?

[mikseymono]

Hi team,

So a simple question........I thought if you hit a ball into a GUR area and you were certain it was in there and you did not find your ball within 3 mins you get free relief.
Playing regular comps now with a certain band of players and one youngie always attacks this tree lined par 4 (250 yard) with driver and sometimes ends up in this GUR area to the left of the green. The thing is it is 250 yards away...so how can you be certain it is in there? The other person I play with is always adamant that you need to find the ball first....would appreciate where this exact wording is so I can show them the rules on Sunday.........

 

[rulefan]

The words you want are in 16.1e.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/h...ons.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=16

If a player’s ball has not been found and it is known or virtually certain that the ball came to rest in or on an abnormal course condition on the course, the player may use this relief option instead of taking stroke-and-distance relief:

Known or Virtually Certain
The standard for deciding what happened to a player’s ball – for example, whether the ball came to rest in a penalty area, whether it moved or what caused it to move.
Known or virtually certain means more than just possible or probable. It means that either:

• There is conclusive evidence that the event in question happened to the player’s ball, such as when the player or other witnesses saw it happen, or
• Although there is a very small degree of doubt, all reasonably available information shows that it is at least 95% likely that the event in question happened.

“All reasonably available information” includes all information the player knows and all other information he or she can get with reasonable effort and without unreasonable delay.

 

[doublebogey7]

16.1e, is your rule, it needs to be known or virtually certain that the ball lies in the Abnormal Course Condition if you are to get relief without finding the ball. In the situation you describe unless you or someone else sees the ball enter the GUR and be sure it's not come out then I doubt you can be virtually certain that is where it is, but you've got to be there to make a proper judgement.

 

[backwoodsman]

Hi team,

So a simple question........I thought if you hit a ball into a GUR area and you were certain it was in there and you did not find your ball within 3 mins you get free relief.
Playing regular comps now with a certain band of players and one youngie always attacks this tree lined par 4 (250 yard) with driver and sometimes ends up in this GUR area to the left of the green. The thing is it is 250 yards away...so how can you be certain it is in there? The other person I play with is always adamant that you need to find the ball first....would appreciate where this exact wording is so I can show them the rules on Sunday.........

Have a look at rule 16.1e - which covers a ball not found in abnormal course condition. It states that it has to be known or virtually certain that the ball is in there for rule 16.1 to apply. At 250yards distant, I'd suggest that it won't be KOVC that the ball is in it, so you'd you'd really need to find the ball first.

Edit: darn, beaten again ..

 

[mikseymono]

Thanks for quick replies.
It is the 'certain' bit that is a bit vague.....if it were 50 yards away much easier...but 250, with tall trees in the way...and not everyone looking at it. It has been known that the marker of this youngies card occupies himself with doing something else whilst he attempts to hit the green in one...so if asked he just shrugs and says he didn't see it.....I can see this situation happening every Sunday now and as it is a 9 hole course it will happen twice........just want to get my facts correct before storming in...

Cheers,

M

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

On KOVC I believe that it is down to the individual player to decide, even if one or more playing companions disagree.

If there is disagreement and the player continues on the basis of KOVC and does not play out a 'contingency' ball as if the original ball had been deemed lost, then it is up to his playing companions to decide whether or not to report the situation?

 

[mikseymono]

Maybe, if it were me...I would announce I was attacking the green so would be grateful for some extra eyeballs so as to quicken the play up should it land adjacent the green.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Thanks for quick replies.
It is the 'certain' bit that is a bit vague.....if it were 50 yards away much easier...but 250, with tall trees in the way...and not everyone looking at it. It has been known that the marker of this youngies card occupies himself with doing something else whilst he attempts to hit the green in one...so if asked he just shrugs and says he didn't see it.....I can see this situation happening every Sunday now and as it is a 9 hole course it will happen twice........just want to get my facts correct before storming in...

Cheers,

M

Definitely needs clarifying as he sounds as though he's hedging his bets and trying to use the GUR as a get out clause if the shot at the green goes wrong especially if his PP's don't see it/weren't looking. I'd suggest the KOVC criteria aren't being met and that going forward he'll need to find it or proceed as normal under "lost ball" guidelines

 

[rulefan]

On KOVC I believe that it is down to the individual player to decide, even if one or more playing companions disagree.

If there is disagreement and the player continues on the basis of KOVC and does not play out a 'contingency' ball as if the original ball had been deemed lost, then it is up to his playing companions to decide whether or not to report the situation?

The player should check with the committee on completion of the round (or a referee if there is one) if he encounters such a doubtful situation.