GUR bunker, ball embedded on face, local rule in place.

[KenL]

We have the local rule in place NOT allowing free relief from embedded ball in bunker face.

This situation occurred in a bounce game today.

My thoughts are that free relief should be available as a GUR bunker is NOT a bunker.

Am I correct? Thanks.

 

[KenL]

 

[D-S]

We have the local rule in place NOT allowing free relief from embedded ball in bunker face.

This situation occurred in a bounce game today.

My thoughts are that free relief should be available as a GUR bunker is NOT a bunker.

Am I correct? Thanks.

View attachment 60498

My view is that there is no free relief as it is still a bunker but it also happens to be GUR. The description if the area where you get relief is ‘above bunkers’ this is certainly where the ball is.
I assume your local rule is like this;-
If the revetted face is GUR (and therefore free relief is available) then it should be marked or described as that, you can’t see that from the photo.
Model Local Rule F-2.2"Rule 16.3 is modified in this way:Free relief is not allowed when a ball is embedded in [stacked turf faces] [soil faces] above bunkers.Penalty for Playing Ball from a Wrong Place in Breach of Local Rule: General Penalty Under Rule 14.7a."

 

[woofers]

Interesting, my understanding is that the stacked or soil face is not part of the bunker in the first place. So therefore not part of the area of GUR.

 

[KenL]

Interesting, my understanding is that the stacked or soil face is not part of the bunker in the first place. So therefore not part of the area of GUR.

Good point I need to consider. The bunker face may also be GUR. No line around the bunker.

 

[rulie]

Good point I need to consider. The bunker face may also be GUR. No line around the bunker.

Review the definition of “bunker”.
IMO, the bunker face is not part of the bunker.
Now, if I have to stand in the bunker (GUR) to make the stroke?

 

[KenL]

Review the definition of “bunker”.
IMO, the bunker face is not part of the bunker.
Now, if I have to stand in the bunker (GUR) to make the stroke?

Yes, I understand that the face is not part of the bunker.

Does this mean:

1. That whether the bunker is “GUR” or not does not matter in this situation and the only thing is whether or not the new stacked face is GUR?

Or

2. As per my original question that a “bunker” marked GUR is NOT a bunker?

 

[D-S]

Review the definition of “bunker”.
IMO, the bunker face is not part of the bunker.
Now, if I have to stand in the bunker (GUR) to make the stroke?

Very good point. So if the GUR which is an abnormal course condition (in this case the whole of the bunker) is interfering with stroke or stance then free relief is available? In this case it’s irrelevant whether or not the face itself is GUR.
I guess the subsequent question is whether having a hack at the ball is a reasonable shot or not?

 

[rulefan]

Does this mean:

1. That whether the bunker is “GUR” or not does not matter in this situation and the only thing is whether or not the new stacked face is GUR?

Or

2. As per my original question that a “bunker” marked GUR is NOT a bunker?

GUR is simply an Abnormal Course Condition.
It is not a Defined Area of the Course. Bunkers are.

 

[KenL]

I would have to stand in the GUR area (the sand) to play that ball? Is that also a consideration?

 

[rulie]

Continue reading the definition

I would have to stand in the GUR area (the sand) to play that ball? Is that also a consideration?

Of course it is a consideration. The bunker marked as GUR is now part of the general area.

 

[rulefan]

I would have to stand in the GUR area (the sand) to play that ball? Is that also a consideration?

Yes. 16.1a(1)

 

[wjemather]

Why is the bunker GUR?

 

[KenL]

Why is the bunker GUR?

Totally re-built. About 30 of the 100 we have on the course.
Absolutely great job they do.

 

[rulefan]

The bunker marked as GUR is now part of the general area.

Only if the Committee have defined it as such

 

[D-S]

The bunker marked as GUR is now part of the general area.

Is this point in contradiction to Rulefan’s point in post #9 ?
“GUR is simply an Abnormal Course Condition.
It is not a Defined Area of the Course. Bunkers are.”

 

[rulefan]

Is this point in contradiction to Rulefan’s point in post #9 ?
“GUR is simply an Abnormal Course Condition.
It is not a Defined Area of the Course. Bunkers are.”

"When a bunker is being repaired and the Committee defines the entire bunker as ground under repair, it is treated as part of the general area (which means it is not a bunker)."
Although I'm not sure how hard and fast the bold words are in practice.

 

[KenL]

I messaged our comp sec and he confirmed that the stacked turf is also GUR.
A white lime round the bunkers would be worthwhile doing but I guess that they are very busy.

 

[rulefan]

I messaged our comp sec and he confirmed that the stacked turf is also GUR.
A white lime round the bunkers would be worthwhile doing but I guess that they are very busy.

Did the comp sec confirm the areas or are not part of the General Area?

 

[KenL]

He said any sign in a bunker saying GUR includes the stacked turf also. Didn’t mention general area.

Edit. I did not ask about general area.