Greensomes rules query

[Fish]

I think I'm right in saying that rules in association with Greensomes come under Foursomes?

However, Greensome competition yesterday and we still have pick, clean and place on the fairways. We chose my partners drive up the 18th and the other pair chose a ball about 2 yards immediately behind ours.

So, as I got to my our ball first I marked it with a tee peg and cleaned it as I moved away to the side of the fairway so the other player could take his shot.

Whilst waiting I put my partner's ball in my pocket, the other player made his shot, I then reached into my pocket, placed a ball on the ground and played my shot.

My partner then walked to the ball and recognised it as my ball and asked, "how come I was playing with my ball when we chose his drive", I had simply taken my ball out of my pocket without looking at the markings and played the wrong ball!

Not knowing what the rule was I gave him his ball back and as it was pick, clean and place he replaced his ball with mine and we finished the hole with the correct ball and declared what had happened to our playing partners who also didn't know the ruling.

Someone said in the bar that when my partner recognised it was the wrong ball I should have returned to as close as where I took my previous shot from and played the shot again with his ball under stroke and penalty, so in other words, as it was originally my 2nd shot, I would have been playing 4, was that correct, or?

As we did what we did (as described above), the 2 points we gained from that hole was taken from our score dropping us from 3rd to 10th, was that the correct decision?

 

[Old Skier]

No real rules for greensomes I think you'll find. Don't think playing a partners ball would matter.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Would think it's a case of playing the wrong ball in stroke play - it maybe greensomes but because you have picked your partners ball to play then that's the ball that surely must be played. Believe you did the correct thing

 

[Colin L]

As I see it.

By choosing your partner's drive you have to play his ball as it lies. If you opt to take a preferred lie, you should place the same ball as you lifted as is required by the specimen preferred lie local rule (my bold type):

Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot .....

However, since the ball had been lifted and the other one placed it would not be a wrong ball but a wrongly substituted ball. 2 stroke penalty and carry on with the substituted ball.

 

[Old Skier]

These things are always difficult when they aren't covered by the rules of golf, even CONGU will only give a recommendation on handicaps.

 

[Colin L]

I agree, but in greensomes, the only bit that is outwith the rules is the initial playing of two drives. Once one is chosen, you are playing foursomes within the rules.

 

[rulie]

I agree, but in greensomes, the only bit that is outwith the rules is the initial playing of two drives. Once one is chosen, you are playing foursomes within the rules.

And a further penalty for the second substitution (when your partner substituted his ball for yours).

 

[rulefan]

And a further 2 stroke penalty for the second substitution (when your partner substituted his ball for yours).

...

 

[Fish]

And a further penalty for the second substitution (when your partner substituted his ball for yours).

It didn't matter, the 2 points was enough for a no return as it was stableford half combined handicap.

 

[Old Skier]

It didn't matter, the 2 points was enough for a no return as it was stableford half combined handicap.

So they didn't use congu recommendations so why the concern over which ball was hit.

 

[Fish]

So they didn't use congu recommendations so why the concern over which ball was hit.

What you on about!

They did use the rules as it was decided that it would have been at least a 2 shot penalty which made the 18th a non scoring hole for us, I just wanted to know the official line/rule on it from the rule gurus on here, of which your not one.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There is Congu recommended HC allowance for Greensome comps - don't have to follow them and many use the half combined formula.

Doesn't change how you ruled that hole which was correct

 

[rulefan]

So they didn't use congu recommendations so why the concern over which ball was hit.

What have the CONGU recommendations got to do with it?
They are not Rules and Greensomes are not qualifiers.

 

[Fish]

There is Congu recommended HC allowance for Greensome comps - don't have to follow them and many use the half combined formula.

Doesn't change how you ruled that hole which was correct

We were going to use the 40% difference of the lower, of something like that but the cards hadn't been prepared correctly do it was decided before we all went to the tees (shotgun) that it would be half combined.

They were searching through the rule book under Foursomes as Greensomes isn't considered and whether it was stroke and distance or anything else we could find, the minimum was 2 shots which gave us a nil score.

It was a bit frantic as we were within the prizes when we came in so the amount of penalty shots had to be right and we accepted the 2 shot penalty and dropped off the grid 😞

My bad error 😡

 

[Old Skier]

What have the CONGU recommendations got to do with it?
They are not Rules and Greensomes are not qualifiers.

And there are no rules laid down by the R&A for greensomes and if you ask them for a ruling they wouldn't give you one so basically my point is the committee could come down on any ruling they wish to apply.

 

[rosecott]

What have the CONGU recommendations got to do with it?
They are not Rules and Greensomes are not qualifiers.

By the same token Matchplays are not qualifiers but CONGU rules dictate what handicap allowances should be applied.

 

[Fish]

By the same token Matchplays are not qualifiers but CONGU rules dictate what handicap allowances should be applied.

I don't think Congu 'dictate', do they, hence why some clubs are still using 3/4's and not 90% as I experienced at the Forest of Arden the other week in a BB comp.

 

[rulefan]

I don't think Congu 'dictate', do they, hence why some clubs are still using 3/4's and not 90% as I experienced at the Forest of Arden the other week in a BB comp.

In fact they do.

APPENDIX F
Affiliated Clubs must use the following handicap allowances for the undernoted forms of competition
when played as handicap events .........

Greensomes are the exception.

And they have said that any clubs not conforming may face the ultimate sanction of withdrawing their right to the CONGU licence.

 

[Fish]

In fact they do.

APPENDIX F
Affiliated Clubs must use the following handicap allowances for the undernoted forms of competition
when played as handicap events .........

Greensomes are the exception.

And they have said that any clubs not conforming may face the ultimate sanction of withdrawing their right to the CONGU licence.

So any club still using 3/4's in Opens or any competition can be challenged and asked why and even reported as they are not conforming to Congu's directive?

 

[Colin L]

So any club still using 3/4's in Opens or any competition can be challenged and asked why and even reported as they are not conforming to Congu's directive?

Yes.