Golf Rules need Help!

[Golfer_Liam]

I was in a golf competion(stroke play) and i got to the 17th hole, it was a blind shot and the other player hit his first ball and it looked like it could be lost so he hit a provisinal shot which went in more or less the same place, he used 2 identical balls with no id marks on them, when we got around the corner he found one of the balls(pro v 1's which damage easily)and this ball had not even one mark just a little bit of mud and this is ment to be the ball he had used all day,he was shouting and ranting saying that was his first ball, he went on to win the comp, is that what should have happened,any answers welcome
(At the start of the hole i told him to mark his second ball but he said the other ball is worn and ill know the difference.

 

[KeefG]

Firstly - welcome to the forum fella!

Secondly - thats a tough one!

As the rules go, he should really have played a 3rd ball from the tee before moving off to find any of the others. R & A rules state that "The responsibility for playing the proper ball rests with the player. Each player should put an identification mark on his ball.

The operative word there being should, I'm not entirely sure to be honest as I cant see anything in the rules (i've only had a quick glance) that supports this specific issue.

If it had been me, and I was as sure as you are making out, i'd have argued the point with said other player that it is nigh on impossible to play 17 holes with a pro v1 and for it to not have any scuff marks on it and that it must be the 2nd ball.

Maybe someone more learnered in the R&A rules than me knows different?

 

[Dan24]

Since he couldn't be certain which ball it was, he should have played 5 off the tee. As he played the ball he was in effect playing a wrong ball and as he didn't correct this error he should have been dq'ed.

 

[bobmac]

I would say if the ball was clearly not 17 holes old and virtually mark-free, then it would have to be his provisional ball, playing 4th shot.

 

[RGDave]

I would say if the ball was clearly not 17 holes old and virtually mark-free, then it would have to be his provisional ball, playing 4th shot.

That's got to be the call.....how you'd make it stick I don't know.

These 1st ball or provisional? things happen quite regularly if you've hit both in the same place, more or less.

If I take a provisional, I always take a different make and "announce" the new name and number. Saves the worry.

I'll just go and polish my halo.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I think I'd have to agree and say that it is most likely the provisional and that he played the wrong ball. I guess at the end of the day though if you were that convinced you should have reported it and let the committee make the decision. It may have made you unpopular with his cronies but I reckon a lot of the more sensible members would have appreciated your integrity.

 

[Imurg]

If you don't mark your ball at all and you lose sight of it, you cannot be sure that the ball you find is yours. He should be D'Qd. Simples...

Lesson?

Always put some sort of a mark on your ball.

 

[backwoodsman]

Since the rules say "should" put an identifying mark, its not compulsory to do so. Hence it makes it difficult to impose the strict rules. However, if you check the "Decisions" book, it does come out quite clear.

a) possibility of him having played a wrong ball. In the case you describe, Decisions 12-2/1 say "yes" because 1) the condition of the ball suggests so, and 2) you know there are two balls of the same brand, model & ID number in roughly the same location, which make it impossible to tell which ball is which. So he should have incurred 2 shot penalty for playing wrong ball, corrected the mistake by playing right ball, and if not corrected, then DQ.

b) because the two balls were identical, then even if the "wrong ball" route above is not taken, decision 27/11 gives answers. One is that if one ball is found, and the other isn't, then you must presume the found ball is the provisional. Another scenario is that if both balls are found, it would not be fair to say "go back & play 5" so you have to pick one of the balls and play it as the provisional. (the other is abandoned)

Either way (a or b above) your man should have scored at least two more strokes than he did - and hence may well have not won.

 

[Leftie]

Rule 12.2
Decision 27/11

"A player entitled to play a provisional ball from the tee plays it into the same area as his original ball. The balls have identical markings and the player cannot distinguish between them. Following are various situations and the solutions, which are based on equity (Rule 1-4), when the above circumstances exist and one or both of the balls are found within a search of five minutes:

Situation 3: One ball is found in bounds and the other ball is lost or is found out of bounds.

Solution 3: The ball in bounds must be presumed to be the provisional ball."

Your opponent should be D/Q. Perhaps someone should explain the rules to him and he should do the "right thing" and call the penalty.

Why oh why can't some golfers do the simplest of things like marking a ball so that it can be POSITIVELY identified and use a different ball for the provisional???



To my mind, if someone uses a provisional ball with exactly the same make, number and markings as the original, I do start to have suspicions.

 

[Smiffy]

To my mind, if someone uses a provisional ball with exactly the same make, number and markings as the original, I do start to have suspicions.

Ditto

 

[freddielong]

IMO as he could not identify the ball positivly both balls were lost and he should have played a further ball and had two lost balls - if you cannot be certain, its not your ball

 

[Golfer_Liam]

Thanks for all your help

 

[Fyldewhite]

Golf is sometimes not about doing the right thing but being seen to do the right thing. Even if he is 99% sure he played his original ball he must accept that to most impartial observers there is at least a considerable element of doubt here. In those circumstances he should remove that doubt by disqualifying himself or risk being called a cheat and having the mud associated with that stick for some considerable time.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

In hindsight it would have been worth having a word with the handicap or competition secretary anyway and explain what happened and let them ask him directly if he was sure. It might have embarrased him sufficiently to have quietly stood aside. He could have been entered on the score sheet as N/R and no-one would have known why. I'd be half tempted to mention it to the secretary anyway for future reference as I'm certain he won't change and sooner or later this will arise again