Golf Psychology

[virtuocity]

Greg, interested in your opinion here.

A player has enough money for one lesson from either a golf pro or a golf psychologist. Which would he be better giving his money to if:

a) he played off 28
b) he played off 18
c) he played off 8
d) he played off 0.8

 

[Allanxyz]

Yes, I think that's correct. If you are concentrating on a specific sport and calling yourself a golf psychologist than I personally would expect you to be involved in the sport and would have applied your own golf psychology to your own game and have results to show for it. I think if you call yourself a golf psychologist the question of personal achievements and your personal handicap would be asked, IMO.

If you are a mind coach or sports psychologist or anything that doesn't lend itself by name to a specific sport then there are no preconceptions, the person you are seeking help from is by definition not automatically associated to your sport and as such doesn't need to take part in it for me to visit them.

Fair enough...preconceptions. But does it make sense that he calls himself a sports psychologist rather than a golf psychologist and his handicap is no longer important when giving golf advice? I can understand why you think it, but it makes no sense...I guess that is psychology!

 

[Fish]

Fair enough...preconceptions. But does it make sense that he calls himself a sports psychologist rather than a golf psychologist and his handicap is no longer important when giving golf advice? I can understand why you think it, but it makes no sense...I guess that is psychology!

I think there is a world of difference between a Sports Psychologist or Mind Coach that would possibly concentrate on confidence, positive thoughts, self belief and areas like that, rather than a Golf Psychologist offering as you state, 'golf advice'.

This is taken from his post #10 "the first session usually takes 1-2 hours and is a discussion about you your game, what you want to achieve, and the problems you have been having. This gives me enough information to come up with interventions, drills, techniques etc to help you overcome these problems"

So, if I am a single handicapper (I wish) suffering with different aspects of my game, can a 18 handicapper understand that when they have never been at that level and come up with "drills & techniques" to get my game back on track, I'm sorry but I'm very sceptical of that personally. I think to target a particular sport namely a Golf Psychologist you have to have a level of experience within it to pass on relative advice, as such that experience should be of a high level, otherwise where or what are the origins of the advice being given, there not from personal experience are they?

 

[CMAC]

this argument is going round in circles!

Some people just dont listen...or respond to questions if it doesn't fit their agenda


Good luck Greg, don't let the naysayers put you off

 

[G_Mulligan]

Greg, interested in your opinion here.

A player has enough money for one lesson from either a golf pro or a golf psychologist. Which would he be better giving his money to if:

a) he played off 28
b) he played off 18
c) he played off 8
d) he played off 0.8

Interesting question virtuocity and a difficult one to answer and it probably has more than one depending on the situation. Lets say the 28 handicapper does not really have time or inclination to practice but is frustrated with his current level then possibly a session with a golf psychologist could change his expectations and mindset to teach him just to accept whatever happens on the course with a smile and help him enjoy his occasional rounds for the social and exercise benefits. If however he is determined to improve and practice but can only afford one lesson for whatever reason I would probably suggest either a chipping lesson or possibly a basic setup lesson that will help his grip, posture, alignment etc.

Going back to your question in a vacuum without any background knowledge I would say that for an 18, 8, or 0.8 handicap golfer if they can only have one lesson I would say a session with a psychologist could be more worthwhile than a technique lesson. They must already have pretty good, very good, or exceptional technique to be playing at that level and maybe just need a change to their mental approach to reach the next level. This may be an increase in confidence to trust their swing on the course, or help with focus and concentration, staying in the moment, anxiety and nerves or a number of other things that are holding them back.

Of course I am biased because I deeply believe in sports psychology and my personal ability to help golfers of all levels to improve. If you asked a teaching pro you would probably get a very different answer. However, lets say the 18 handicap golfer suffers from a slice, they think that is what is holding back their game. Can one lesson with a coach really fix that slice? Would it be more beneficial to learn to play with that slice and instead concentrate on the abilities they do have and focus on what they do well? I could perhaps say that until you have the time and money to get a series of lessons to fix the major problem why not use a 3 wood, hybrid, or long iron off the tee. Keep the ball in play, accept bogey is a good score on most holes off your handicap and find a way (chipping, putting, course management) to score a few pars and the odd birdie along the way.

Again, it is difficult to answer easily (hence my rambling reply) but for a low handicap golfer, the 8 or 0.8 have almost certainly had a number of lessons to get to that level and if they haven't they they have worked very hard and practiced long hours to hone their own game. One lesson at this stage could actually have a detrimental effect on their game without follow up lessons to ensure the new technique is properly ingrained and performed without conscious thought. I am confident in my own ability that a change in mental approach can have more benefit to their game than a single technique lesson ever could.

 

[Hobbit]

I don't think a psychologist's h'cap has any bearing on his ability to provide help with the mental aspect of someone's game. And let's face it, the pressure(mental torture) a 28 h'capper faces over that putt on the last to break h'cap is exactly the same as that faced by the scratch h'capper....

However, my tupenneth worth. When you're stood 190yds out, with water to carry, why do you think about the water? You know that if that water wasn't there you'd carry the distance no bother - not even a second thought. What is your head doing?

We practice the physical aspects of the game but do we practice strength of mind, or the techniques to strengthen it?

 

[Allanxyz]

I think many could do with help on the mental side, whether it actually to get better at golf, cope with high pressure situations, make the right decisions or actually just to enjoy the game a bit more. How often do you see people on the golf course that don't actually look like they are having a good time (myself included when I'm on a bad run) living or dying by every shot.

Of course the difficulty is getting over the cost of it as well as just initiating something like that... I bet many players think it might be worth it, but think psychologists are just for the professionals to eek out an extra few percent.

After reading the thread about freebies for golf members I was struck by how few were offered a free lesson... if you have a free lesson voucher then I reckon mayn would take this up...obviously some would just take the free lesson and that would be then end of it, but some would get on with the pro, see the benefits and sign up for a course. Maybe you could do something similar Greg. Negotiate with a club, free half hour with you for new members...you offer a pearl or two of wisdom (not giving all your secrets away of course) and hopefully a few would sign up for a full course. To me this breaks the barrier, and if you help some people you have a massive word of mouth benefit. Maybe even a few of the non-believers on here would turn up if it was a freebie and realise you could help them.... even though you've not won the club championship!!

 

[garyinderry]

the 28 and 18 handicapper would be better off having a course management lesson. simply knowing when to attack and when to hold back can easily shave shots here as long as their technique is sound and they don't duff many shots.


its as simple as that!

no amount of couch lessons is going to help someone hit a 190 yard shot over water better. its a tough shot!

 

[G_Mulligan]

I think there is a world of difference between a Sports Psychologist or Mind Coach that would possibly concentrate on confidence, positive thoughts, self belief and areas like that, rather than a Golf Psychologist offering as you state, 'golf advice'.

This is taken from his post #10 "the first session usually takes 1-2 hours and is a discussion about you your game, what you want to achieve, and the problems you have been having. This gives me enough information to come up with interventions, drills, techniques etc to help you overcome these problems"

So, if I am a single handicapper (I wish) suffering with different aspects of my game, can a 18 handicapper understand that when they have never been at that level and come up with "drills & techniques" to get my game back on track, I'm sorry but I'm very sceptical of that personally. I think to target a particular sport namely a Golf Psychologist you have to have a level of experience within it to pass on relative advice, as such that experience should be of a high level, otherwise where or what are the origins of the advice being given, there not from personal experience are they?

I think this may be the crux of your argument and may have misunderstood my meaning. I of course mean drills and techniques to help with the mental aspects of the game. So it may be focus triggers, positive self talk, visualisation etc. I would not be giving out drills that will help with technique like a teaching pro would like the basket or headcover drill to fix an over the top swing or poor takeaway. I still work with proven sport psychology techniques, as you mentioned, such as confidence, positive thoughts, self beleif, but I have specialised in those that specifically help golfers. A closed skill sport with ample time between shots to lose concentration, first tee nerves, shift of focus to negative stimulus (bunkers/water/OOB etc).

Going back to Adrian and his hurdler for an example. Does Adrain have to be a top class hurdler to understand that an athlete could be suffering anxiety or tension in the starting blocks? Could the athlete be focused on not hitting each hurdle rather than on trusting the technique they have honed in practice that will allow them to jump each hurdle with confidence, power, and a smooth even tempo? Perhaps the athlete hit the 7th hurdle in a really important race which cost them the win. The next race they are are running great until the transition between 6th and 7th hurdle when suddenly they think 'oh god don't hit this one again' suddenly they tighten up, concentrate on their stride length and they hit the hurdle again.

He probably won't know this just by watching them hurdle but by speaking to the athlete about their performance and the mental aspects they perceive to be the problem he can devise ways in which to fix those problems. In the same way, I can do this with golfers who are suffering from first tee nerves or a focus on certain holes or hazards that have cost them in the past.

 

[G_Mulligan]

the 28 and 18 handicapper would be better off having a course management lesson. simply knowing when to attack and when to hold back can easily shave shots here as long as their technique is sound and they don't duff many shots.


its as simple as that!

no amount of couch lessons is going to help someone hit a 190 yard shot over water better. its a tough shot!

Yes I could. I really could help with them make that shot more often than before by overcoming the psychological aspects of the shot and getting them to hit with a focused mind and confident swing, they have a better chance of success than if they hit it with fear and doubt.

Of course you are right that course management is a large aspect of playing to the best of your abilities but that is not physical practice or technique it is a mental approach to your round. Devising a game plan and sticking to it, swallowing your pride and laying up short can be difficult when others are watching. What if you do lay up short on one hole with water but duff your pitch and you get wet anyway. You may get angry and think I might as well have just gone for it anyway and that is what you do for the rest of the round, playing angry and tense and taking on every shot because it did not work when you played safe.

 

[Rooter]

In the same way, I can do this with golfers who are suffering from first tee nerves or a focus on certain holes or hazards that have cost them in the past.

Talk to me about the 15th par 3 at my place, i cant even par the god damn hole and now i fear it from about the 13th... its not even hard, i just have a block! its about 190yards straight par 3 with no real danger anywhere!!! I have never ever hit the green on the damn hole!! now are the nay sayers saying my club pro could help me with my technique, or is this something a physiologist could sort?

 

[bladeplayer]

no amount of couch lessons is going to help someone hit a 190 yard shot over water better. its a tough shot!

yes it is but no tougher than any 190 yard shot realy .. if you can carry the ball 190 yards with a club then whether there is water or not there doesnt make the actual shot any harder ..
It might make you THINK differently , but its still 190 yards through the air ..

Mental attitude mate all in the mind .. bring on Greg

 

[garyinderry]

yes it is but no tougher than any 190 yard shot realy .. if you can carry the ball 190 yards with a club then whether there is water or not there doesnt make the actual shot any harder ..
It might make you THINK differently , but its still 190 yards through the air ..

Mental attitude mate all in the mind .. bring on Greg

I have no problem hitting the ball 190 in the air. its just that around the 190 + mark it becomes difficult to actually hit the target as well.

 

[garyinderry]

Yes I could. I really could help with them make that shot more often than before by overcoming the psychological aspects of the shot and getting them to hit with a focused mind and confident swing, they have a better chance of success than if they hit it with fear and doubt.

Of course you are right that course management is a large aspect of playing to the best of your abilities but that is not physical practice or technique it is a mental approach to your round. Devising a game plan and sticking to it, swallowing your pride and laying up short can be difficult when others are watching. What if you do lay up short on one hole with water but duff your pitch and you get wet anyway. You may get angry and think I might as well have just gone for it anyway and that is what you do for the rest of the round, playing angry and tense and taking on every shot because it did not work when you played safe.

if you lay up and duff you need more practice. what you are saying is that you can give someone confidence to take on a shot they probably shouldn't be attempting. yes they have done it before but the old adage goes, if you cant do it 7/10 times then don't take it on. you might, just might instil a gung ho approach in people which I think could cause more harm that good.

it would certainly cloud any notion of good course management.

 

[bladeplayer]

I have no problem hitting the ball 190 in the air. its just that around the 190 + mark it becomes difficult to actually hit the target as well.

So its the 190 yard shot in general that is a prob ? .. the water is just an added complication ...!?

for my 2p worth i see alot of people , myself included at times, seeing the danger around the shot rather than just the shot ..

 

[bladeplayer]

if you lay up and duff you need more practice. what you are saying is that you can give someone confidence to take on a shot they probably shouldn't be attempting. yes they have done it before but the old adage goes, if you cant do it 7/10 times then don't take it on. you might, just might instil a gung ho approach in people which I think could cause more harm that good.

it would certainly cloud any notion of good course management.

I think you may have this wrong Gary .. Greg and the likes of him can give you the confidence to hit a shot or to be more confident in your ability to make THAT shot ... no mental coach can help you hit the impossible shot .. no matter how good he or she is

 

[garyinderry]

So its the 190 yard shot in general that is a prob ? .. the water is just an added complication ...!?

for my 2p worth i see alot of people , myself included at times, seeing the danger around the shot rather than just the shot ..

im talking about shots in general over 190 yards. this includes 210, 220 etc. I see people reaching for the 3 wood on these and think here we go. its a tough shot at the best of times. anyone over 18 handicap attempting these all the time need to re-access their course management.

I wont take on these shots if there isn't somewhere safe to miss these shots. room right or left or behind. if there is danger either side ill probably lay up.

the thing is I might only have to do this once or twice a round. at my level is it the smartest option!

 

[garyinderry]

I think you may have this wrong Gary .. Greg and the likes of him can give you the confidence to hit a shot or to be more confident in your ability to make THAT shot ... no mental coach can help you hit the impossible shot .. no matter how good he or she is

im not talking about impossible shots. just hard shots relative to their ability which in this case is measured by handicap.

playing smart is by far the easiest way to improve in this game.

 

[G_Mulligan]

if you lay up and duff you need more practice. what you are saying is that you can give someone confidence to take on a shot they probably shouldn't be attempting. yes they have done it before but the old adage goes, if you cant do it 7/10 times then don't take it on. you might, just might instil a gung ho approach in people which I think could cause more harm that good.

it would certainly cloud any notion of good course management.

I think that is a very unfair interpretation of my post.

You said I could not help someone hit a 190 shot over water any better which I disagreed with and gave an example of how I could. I then went on to detail how course management is closely linked into psychology and again gave an example of how a positive mental approach could improve course management not cloud or hinder it.

Yes more often than not a 190 yard shot over water should maybe be avoided but what if you need to get the ball down in two to rescue a stableford point or a half in match play? Laying up is not the best option in this case but hitting with a positive and confident swing is better than hitting one with doubt and fear that the ball is going to go into the water.

 

[bladeplayer]

im talking about shots in general over 190 yards. this includes 210, 220 etc. I see people reaching for the 3 wood on these and think here we go. its a tough shot at the best of times. anyone over 18 handicap attempting these all the time need to re-access their course management.

I wont take on these shots if there isn't somewhere safe to miss these shots. room right or left or behind. if there is danger either side ill probably lay up.

the thing is I might only have to do this once or twice a round. at my level is it the smartest option!

Gota agree with that in competitions all right .. if you were out for a knock around would you take these shots on ? you got get out there and practice until you have the confidence you WILL not MIGHT make this shot ..
You know you can make that shot , its the mind stuff getting in your way stopping you ..

i got agree with you that someone 18h'cap or more should not be trying this shot too often but thats down to playing ability .. psychology can only help with stuff you should be physicaly able to do but you are mentaly scared of .. maybe Greg wont wont agree with me on that .. its just my opinion


In these words below , i can see the sence in them by all means but also the negativity ..

I have no problem hitting the ball 190 in the air. its just that around the 190 + mark it becomes difficult to actually hit the target as well

I wont take on these shots if there isn't somewhere safe to miss these shots. room right or left or behind. if there is danger either side ill probably lay up.