Golf course closures!

[Golfmmad]

Not sure if this has been posted yet.
I see another golf course is closing in Yorkshire - over 100 years old!
Is it just the decline in golf in general or government wanting land for housing?

What does the forum think?

 

[CliveW]

I think it's more to do with the lack of demand for golf rather than the demand for housing. Unless the golf course is situated in an area where the local authority has deemed a need for housing, it is unlikely that any developer will obtain planning permission. I have never heard of the government wanting land for housing, but perhaps it is different in England.

 

[slowhand]

Not sure if this has been posted yet.
I see another golf course is closing in Yorkshire - over 100 years old!
Is it just the decline in golf in general or government wanting land for housing?

What does the forum think?

Which club?

 

[Golfmmad]

Which club?

Silsden golf club.

 

[Slab]

Seems to be a members club, I wonder if that financial model is behind their problems or if its being sold for profit /housing etc

 

[pendodave]

I think it's more to do with the lack of demand for golf rather than the demand for housing. Unless the golf course is situated in an area where the local authority has deemed a need for housing, it is unlikely that any developer will obtain planning permission. I have never heard of the government wanting land for housing, but perhaps it is different in England.

It's a little bit more crowded down here...

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I think it's about getting a better short term return on capital employed. An owner (or members) can get a significant short term return and there are plenty of other courses around that you can join having pocketed the windfall.

With the perfect storm of low returns on capital, falling memberships hitting profitability and a lack of housing I can't see the trend reversing for a while.

 

[CliveW]

It's a little bit more crowded down here...

The OP didn't give any indication of where he was referring to.

 

[Golfmmad]

The OP didn't give any indication of where he was referring to.

I was referring to nationwide and Scotland. It seems that its only the strongest will survive.

 

[Blue in Munich]

The OP didn't give any indication of where he was referring to.

Silsden golf club.

I think he did, and it's in Yorkshire.

 

[CliveW]

I think he did, and it's in Yorkshire.

Aye, after I had replied!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Never heard of it but if as said it's a members club then you have to wonder if perhaps they knew the writing was on the wall and so wanted to cash in. Plenty of clubs are doing it (Maidenhead around here springs to mind which Cala homes and Maidenhead council are going to build on). Think that's over 100 years old too.

 

[Chico84]

I think it is probably a combination of a decreasing market for golf at the moment mixed in with increased pressure on local authorities to meet the government’s housing targets. If you aren’t making as much money as you need to from golf then there is often an opportunity to use the land for other things, namely housing. Obviously there are certain land use rules in play but these can be relaxed or changed if really necessary.

Moore Place is a good example here in the SE. A nice 9 hole course on the edge of Esher town centre. Closed overnight back in October and is part of a developer’s local plan for housing. They are unlikely to have paid out for the land if they didn’t think they would get permission for the houses.

I suspect clubs need to look at how they can maintain a strong membership base and look at business models to attract new members and increase revenues. A lot of clubs are trying to diversify with venue hire and the like. Interestingly not seen many with fitness of gym facilities added on though, that might attract different clientele. There’s not an easy solution to this one.

 

[rulefan]

Silsden golf club.

There is plenty of strong competition in the area from better clubs (with more money).

Most of the problem goes back 30 years or so, to the R&A's exhortations to build more courses. At the time there were long waiting list all around the country and it looked a very attractive proposition for speculative commercial developers. The result was a massive oversupply. Golf is now paying the price.

 

[need_my_wedge]

Having recently lost both the privately owned 9 hole and 18 hole courses at Wavendon to developers, Milton Keynes council are looking to off load the only council owned course at Windmill Hill now. The course has been neglected for some time after it went bust a few years back, it really isn't in the best of conditions. Despite it being literally 2 minutes from my house, I don't play it much because everytime I give it another chance, I wind up walking off saying "never again". Having said that, it's not a bad layout, and could be half decent with a bit of investment. It seems that the council are using the argument that with less than 300 members, it just doesn't warrant the cost of upkeep.

On the flip side, the investment group looking at taking over have big plans to build a large sports hub and hotel with indoor cricket, gymnasium, pool, 5 aside, tennis etc. Along with a state of the art driving range and golf centre. In addition they are planning a completely new 9 hole layout, with a mixture of par 3's, par 4's and par 5's, and a nine hole par 3 course. Their argument for a 9 hole course being the time it takes to play 18 holes these days is not what people want.

It remains to be seen what the final outcome will be, the developers have already redesigned the layout twice following planning objections. But it certainly looks like the original course designed by Sir Henry Cotton is destined to disappear fairly soon.

 

[patricks148]

i think Camperdown in Dundee has closed recently too

 

[Swango1980]

I am sure that I hear, back in the 90's, farmers were actually given grants to develop some of their land into golf courses (or potentially other such things), certainly in Lincolnshire. I guess this would have occurred around the time Tiger Woods was giving the game a global audience. As such, at the time, there was probably a big rise in the interest in golf, and therefore a demand for these new courses.

However, although I still think there is a demand for golf, I think things such as internet, multiple TV channels, computer gaming, etc have made massive changes to our lifestyles, and so we are not seeing the interest in golf being sustained. After all, in my youth (80's and 90's) life was about going out and hanging with your mates all day. Looking for things to do, and so golf could well be something that would be an option to some. These days, it's frightening to think how things have changes, such as how many kids spend most of their time indoors on computer games, facebook, netflix, etc. I bet a lot of social interaction with mates is via facebook, whatsapp, online gaming, etc. So, who needs to hang about a golf course all day?

So, the decline is inevitable sadly. What is also sad is that, even if interest in golf was at the same level as pre 1990's, we are seeing some of the oldest courses closing, perhaps because they can't compete with some of the newer courses in terms of what they offer and charge (although I'm sure newer courses are closing also). In Lincolnshire, Canwick, Sandilands and Immingham shut down last year, and at least 2 of those were over 100 years old.

 

[sunshine]

Having recently lost both the privately owned 9 hole and 18 hole courses at Wavendon to developers, Milton Keynes council are looking to off load the only council owned course at Windmill Hill now. The course has been neglected for some time after it went bust a few years back, it really isn't in the best of conditions. Despite it being literally 2 minutes from my house, I don't play it much because everytime I give it another chance, I wind up walking off saying "never again". Having said that, it's not a bad layout, and could be half decent with a bit of investment. It seems that the council are using the argument that with less than 300 members, it just doesn't warrant the cost of upkeep.

On the flip side, the investment group looking at taking over have big plans to build a large sports hub and hotel with indoor cricket, gymnasium, pool, 5 aside, tennis etc. Along with a state of the art driving range and golf centre. In addition they are planning a completely new 9 hole layout, with a mixture of par 3's, par 4's and par 5's, and a nine hole par 3 course. Their argument for a 9 hole course being the time it takes to play 18 holes these days is not what people want.

It remains to be seen what the final outcome will be, the developers have already redesigned the layout twice following planning objections. But it certainly looks like the original course designed by Sir Henry Cotton is destined to disappear fairly soon.

This sounds a pretty good idea to me. There are plenty of traditional 18 hole courses in the area, this is offering an alternative. A 9 hole par three course is more accessible to newcomers, as is a driving range which is open in the evenings for people who have to go to work. Co-locating with gym, tennis etc encourages new people into the game as well.

 

[Foxholer]

Having recently lost both the privately owned 9 hole and 18 hole courses at Wavendon to developers, Milton Keynes council are looking to off load the only council owned course at Windmill Hill now. The course has been neglected for some time after it went bust a few years back, it really isn't in the best of conditions. Despite it being literally 2 minutes from my house, I don't play it much because everytime I give it another chance, I wind up walking off saying "never again". Having said that, it's not a bad layout, and could be half decent with a bit of investment. It seems that the council are using the argument that with less than 300 members, it just doesn't warrant the cost of upkeep.

On the flip side, the investment group looking at taking over have big plans to build a large sports hub and hotel with indoor cricket, gymnasium, pool, 5 aside, tennis etc. Along with a state of the art driving range and golf centre. In addition they are planning a completely new 9 hole layout, with a mixture of par 3's, par 4's and par 5's, and a nine hole par 3 course. Their argument for a 9 hole course being the time it takes to play 18 holes these days is not what people want.

It remains to be seen what the final outcome will be, the developers have already redesigned the layout twice following planning objections. But it certainly looks like the original course designed by Sir Henry Cotton is destined to disappear fairly soon.

A bit saddened to hear this..I used to play it (WH) quite often on the way home from work in MK (and Bletchley). Fairly typical council style/state at the time (2004-2012). Certainly think there's a 'demand' for some sort of golf facility on council land (anywhere) but housing demands and fewer golfers (at least per course) mean council courses are likely to be 'easy prey'! That investment groups approach could be a 'good' way forward!

 

[pendodave]

Having recently lost both the privately owned 9 hole and 18 hole courses at Wavendon to developers, Milton Keynes council are looking to off load the only council owned course at Windmill Hill now. The course has been neglected for some time after it went bust a few years back, it really isn't in the best of conditions. Despite it being literally 2 minutes from my house, I don't play it much because everytime I give it another chance, I wind up walking off saying "never again". Having said that, it's not a bad layout, and could be half decent with a bit of investment. It seems that the council are using the argument that with less than 300 members, it just doesn't warrant the cost of upkeep.

On the flip side, the investment group looking at taking over have big plans to build a large sports hub and hotel with indoor cricket, gymnasium, pool, 5 aside, tennis etc. Along with a state of the art driving range and golf centre. In addition they are planning a completely new 9 hole layout, with a mixture of par 3's, par 4's and par 5's, and a nine hole par 3 course. Their argument for a 9 hole course being the time it takes to play 18 holes these days is not what people want.

It remains to be seen what the final outcome will be, the developers have already redesigned the layout twice following planning objections. But it certainly looks like the original course designed by Sir Henry Cotton is destined to disappear fairly soon.

Not exactly the same situation as the above post, but locally to us (Hertford) a full sized 9 hole course has been converted into a restaurant/pub, modern driving range, a 9 hole PitchnPutt (50-80 yds per hole) and a 9 hole par 3 (proper length par 3s with decent greens and bunkering. Given that we already have a load of courses in East Herts, I think that this is a pretty useful change of use, and likely to get more people started off in golf than a full sized course. Obviously, I would be extremely sceptical of anything involving developers....