Golf Club Visitors

[Slab]

Our on line system shows when tee is reserved. We don't do casual golf tee time booking.

I can see why this might cause concern but I think it’s safe to say that with no tee booking system (yet) the four lads forking out over £200 for one round will probably have been given some kind of a indicative tee time when they booked

Your club either needs visitors or it doesn’t but at £10,000 a year even if only one four-ball turn up once a week its difficult to see any club turn that down


As a postscript, a 4-ball of Rory, GMac, Garcia & Tiger don’t have handicaps and prob haven’t played your course either


edit: just read your edit: is it safe to assume that as a member if your preferred stroll up time was changed to 2:30pm on a Sunday instead of 12 you'd then want visitors restricted to after 3pm? where do you stop

As I say if your clubs set financially then you can decide against opening to the public but the fact that it does suggests they are needed and valued

 

[Hacker Khan]

Issue is that we don't have tee booking for casual play. And so to let a visiting fourball, none of whom had handicaps and none who'd played the course before, book a time to go out at a Sunday lunchtime when members often choose to roll-up for a knock irritated us. We know it can be quiet Sunday lunchtime - it's a great time to tee off it you have Sunday pm free. It's one of the reasons we pay £1500+ a year to be a member. Into the bargain we didn't expect to be getting challenged by visitors about our 'tee time'. And apart from anything else we were not happy that we could easily have found ourselves behind a four ball not having a clue what they were doing. If my club is going to go down the route of taken pay and play players with no handicaps at such times of the day then we were questioning the value we get from paying £1500 and year.

I suppose the question is if members playing 1500 quid a year is enough to sustain the future of the club. If not then other revenue streams have to be explored.

And to be fair to the visitors, I am not a member anywhere so am always a visitor. And if had booked a tee time of 1pm and saw some one on the tee at that time I'd ask the exact same question. Not in a confrontational way, but mostly to see who should be teeing off first. It's not their fault. And also to infer that they do not have a clue what they are doing just because they do not have a handicap certificate or have played the course before is making a big assumption. Many a time me and my mate who also is not a member of a club play courses for the first time. But in addition to giving our hard earned to the club, we also know what we are doing.

 

[Slab]

Issue is that we don't have tee booking for casual play. And so to let a visiting fourball, none of whom had handicaps and none who'd played the course before, book a time to go out at a Sunday lunchtime when members often choose to roll-up for a knock irritated us. We know it can be quiet Sunday lunchtime - it's a great time to tee off it you have Sunday pm free. It's one of the reasons we pay £1500+ a year to be a member. Into the bargain we didn't expect to be getting challenged by visitors about our 'tee time'. And apart from anything else we were not happy that we could easily have found ourselves behind a four ball not having a clue what they were doing. If my club is going to go down the route of taken pay and play players with no handicaps at such times of the day then we were questioning the value we get from paying £1500 and year.

Actually thinking on a bit more as a member I can well understand the feeling of being ‘challenged’ on the 1st tee by a visiting group but the way its worded it does smack of being a little bit pretentious, kind of ‘how dare visitors question us, we’re members and this is our club’... only thing is that the visitors probably didn’t know you from Adam
(Adam also being a keen golfer as we find out in book three, The New Golf Thinking Testament)

And they may innocently have assumed you were 4 visitors when they approached you. I’m sure your group were completely welcoming, maybe even offered a quick tip on playing the course as well as the membership benefits of joining etc such as ‘we’re members we don’t need a tee time’

I’m sure in reality it didn’t come across this way but visitors seem to be a big part of many clubs plans (although still dwarfed by concerns of members) and there’s a lot of hard work being done to encourage them to play, it would be a shame if its undone, even slightly, by the reception of members. I hope everyone enjoyed their game

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

All that has been said is fair - and pragmatic. We are financially OK - but we need to develop visitor income stream.

My irritation was with finding the visitors at a time that I'd expected to be clear for members. However it is perhaps ironic that mebers tee reservations can't be set until a tee booking system is implemented. So we best get on with it. If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well It were done quickly:

 

[Fish]

I don't think you have anything to complain about, if your club needs visitor green fees as a revenue stream and you have no member only time slots, then raise it at your next agm or maybe put your sub's up to £2k and have no visitors. Just because they were nomads, of which there are many on here, I think you have displayed a poor attitude and judged them unfairly. For me, all visitors of clubs are members for the day and should be treated as such without any 2nd class attitude displayed towards them.

 

[trevor]

For me, all visitors of clubs are members for the day and should be treated as such without any 2nd class attitude displayed towards them.

Well said that man.

 

[Face breaker]

I will shortly be taking a weeks holiday on the beautiful North Yorkshire Moors, just outside of Whitby. I will of course be taking the clubs with me with a view to having a couple of rounds at Whitby Golf Club. Or at least I was until I read their T & C's. I am not currently a club member so am without a handicap certificate, which is required to be presented at Whitby. I don't consider myself a hacker, mid to low 90's is average for me, with a bad round touching 100. I am always impeccably presented on the golf course and my etiquette is second to none. Yet I still won't get a game without that certificate. Is this the norm in clubs up and down the country? Do you guys think this is the way forward for golf? I have been a member of several clubs in years gone by but prefer now to play different courses for some variety.
Please discuss.

I've recently pondered this question myself, I'm a "Greenkeeper" by trade and am an honorary member of the club I work at, I'm also a "BIGGA" member which apart from other things allows me to play at participating clubs for free/reduced fee's but I don't have a handicap as I don't play in comps so barring in mind my background what would happen if I turned up at a course to play and a handicap certificate was requested, any idea's anyone ?...

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I've recently pondered this question myself, I'm a "Greenkeeper" by trade and am an honorary member of the club I work at, I'm also a "BIGGA" member which apart from other things allows me to play at participating clubs for free/reduced fee's but I don't have a handicap as I don't play in comps so barring in mind my background what would happen if I turned up at a course to play and a handicap certificate was requested, any idea's anyone ?...

I would suggest speaking to the Green Staff at the course you're going to play and seek there advice as to whether the Course is a stickler for handicap certs.

 

[Face breaker]

I would suggest speaking to the Green Staff at the course you're going to play and seek there advice as to whether the Course is a stickler for handicap certs.

"St Enodoc" down in Cornwall is at the top of my hit list but I only know one of the lads down there from when I was doing my "level 2" but from what I've heard they require a handicap of X or less before they'll allow you to play there (I'm unsure what specific h/c is required so I've substituted it with an X for arguments sake) so yeah your rite it's probably best to speak to the lads first !...:thup:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I don't think you have anything to complain about, if your club needs visitor green fees as a revenue stream and you have no member only time slots, then raise it at your next agm or maybe put your sub's up to £2k and have no visitors. Just because they were nomads, of which there are many on here, I think you have displayed a poor attitude and judged them unfairly. For me, all visitors of clubs are members for the day and should be treated as such without any 2nd class attitude displayed towards them.

Remember that the real issue is that we don't have a tee booking system, it is very contentious issue, and that concern includes having visitors booking tee times as such times as we played. As a members club we will decide how and when on this - and we haven't yet decided; what happened appears to have just been done outside of any discussion or agreement by the members.

 

[Fish]

Remember that the real issue is that we don't have a tee booking system, it is very contentious issue, and that concern includes having visitors booking tee times as such times as we played. As a members club we will decide how and when on this - and we haven't yet decided; what happened appears to have just been done outside of any discussion or agreement by the members.

Lots of clubs don't have a tee booking system for their members, just like mine, but societies will book days & times just like we do on here. When societies are booked they will he added to our website diary or blackboard near the pro shop, obviously a 4-ball wouldn't need to be.put down though, its too small, what's the longest you'd have to wait if you turned up at the same time, 10mins, if that got to you then you need to take z chill pill or as I said, have your subs increased so you don't have visitors.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Lots of clubs don't have a tee booking system for their members, just like mine, but societies will book days & times just like we do on here. When societies are booked they will he added to our website diary or blackboard near the pro shop, obviously a 4-ball wouldn't need to be.put down though, its too small, what's the longest you'd have to wait if you turned up at the same time, 10mins, if that got to you then you need to take z chill pill or as I said, have your subs increased so you don't have visitors.

We have same as you re societies. Issue is simply that we don't yet have a tee booking option for single groups of visitors - that's all - and it seemed to us that an informal one was being worked when not agreed by the members - and at a time the members probably wouldn't want visitors reserving a tee time. But your point is quite valid - that's why I asked for thoughts.

 

[Smiffy]

We didn't expect to be getting "challenged" by visitors about our 'tee time'.

Going by your description of events, I'd hardly say you were "challenged" over your tee time.
Sounds to me like these guys were genuinely keen not to offend you and just didn't know the etiquette of your teeing system.
You don't know for sure what the pro had told them when he took their green fee.
Many's the time I've visited a course and been told "yeah the tee's quite lads, make your way over there and tee off when you're ready"
If there had been a fourball standing near the tee chatting about handicaps and "appearing" as if they wren't ready to tee off, I would have also asked the question. Not as a challenge but as a courtesy.
Yours looks a lovely course. But can it afford to turn down £220.00 worth of green fees at a time of day when you yourself say it is normally very quiet, Sunday or not?
If I were a club secretary or manager with the pressures they have to face, I would rather have 2 or 3 fourballs bringing in hundreds of £££££'s on a Sunday than an empty tee bringing in absolutely nothing.

 

[Fish]

Going by your description of events, I'd hardly say you were "challenged" over your tee time.
Sounds to me like these guys were genuinely keen not to offend you and just didn't know the etiquette of your teeing system.
You don't know for sure what the pro had told them when he took their green fee.
Many's the time I've visited a course and been told "yeah the tee's quite lads, make your way over there and tee off when you're ready"
If there had been a fourball standing near the tee chatting about handicaps and "appearing" as if they wren't ready to tee off, I would have also asked the question. Not as a challenge but as a courtesy.
Yours looks a lovely course. But can it afford to turn down £220.00 worth of green fees at a time of day when you yourself say it is normally very quiet, Sunday or not?
If I were a club secretary or manager with the pressures they have to face, I would rather have 2 or 3 fourballs bringing in hundreds of £££££'s on a Sunday than an empty tee bringing in absolutely nothing.

I was going to mention the fact it was muted that it was usualy quiet at the time this took place hence the reason SILH arranged his competition, however, it will also be known to the pro & secretary its quiet at that time so what an excellent time to get some extra revenue on the books!

Its comes across as though no time would have been suitable if it clashed with when they chose to play, so in other words, you/they want the course exclusively available for yourselves at any time, so subsidise the green fees and pay more subs, simples.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I fully understand all replies that effectively say we need to get on with it - that that's life in the present day for a members club - whether we are paying £300 a year or as we do £1500. And so as members we do have to accept that our club will become more like a pay and play than a traditional members club. For many members that is going to be a very difficult pill to swallow and difficult transition. We will lose quite a few members to clubs in the area who chose not to go this route - yet

 

[NWJocko]

Jeez SiLH you don't have make a mountain out of a molehill!!

1 visiting 4 ball on a Sunday and you're talking about your club turning into a "pay and play"!!?

Were you not talking recently about wanting tee times at weekend to suit YOU for a comp...

Before I was a member anywhere when I rocked up to a nice members club we were always a bit nervous about making sure we didn't get in the road of members so I'm sure they were just doing the same, checking they weren't going to tee off in front of members etc. Happens all the time at mine on the putting green next to the tee.

Have you considered how your attitude would be viewed by that group who may have been potential members that might reduce the need for visitor income!?

Despite you always criticising the "me, me, me" attitude of others you are exactly the same with this whinge and about tee bookings for comps to make life more convenient for you....... Do you really expect the club to gain the view of members on booking a single 4 ball visitor group at an admittedly "quiet time"?

 

[garyinderry]

People usually pay large green fees just to turn up and play. they are not getting one over normal members.


Jocko has hit the head of a touch of the old hypocrisy. :rofl:

 

[chellie]

Jeez SiLH you don't have make a mountain out of a molehill!!

1 visiting 4 ball on a Sunday and you're talking about your club turning into a "pay and play"!!?

Were you not talking recently about wanting tee times at weekend to suit YOU for a comp...

Before I was a member anywhere when I rocked up to a nice members club we were always a bit nervous about making sure we didn't get in the road of members so I'm sure they were just doing the same, checking they weren't going to tee off in front of members etc. Happens all the time at mine on the putting green next to the tee.

Have you considered how your attitude would be viewed by that group who may have been potential members that might reduce the need for visitor income!?

Despite you always criticising the "me, me, me" attitude of others you are exactly the same with this whinge and about tee bookings for comps to make life more convenient for you....... Do you really expect the club to gain the view of members on booking a single 4 ball visitor group at an admittedly "quiet time"?

Agree with you Iain.

Also SILH, a booking system can be set up so that certain times are reserved for members only. It is at ours without a problem.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Jeez SiLH you don't have make a mountain out of a molehill!!

1 visiting 4 ball on a Sunday and you're talking about your club turning into a "pay and play"!!?

Were you not talking recently about wanting tee times at weekend to suit YOU for a comp...

Before I was a member anywhere when I rocked up to a nice members club we were always a bit nervous about making sure we didn't get in the road of members so I'm sure they were just doing the same, checking they weren't going to tee off in front of members etc. Happens all the time at mine on the putting green next to the tee.

Have you considered how your attitude would be viewed by that group who may have been potential members that might reduce the need for visitor income!?

Despite you always criticising the "me, me, me" attitude of others you are exactly the same with this whinge and about tee bookings for comps to make life more convenient for you....... Do you really expect the club to gain the view of members on booking a single 4 ball visitor group at an admittedly "quiet time"?

Pay and Play - It wasn't me who said that - it was one of my PPs but it is a view held by many memebrs who are vehemently opposed to a tee booking system. I was only a bit irked that we didn't know there would be a fourball there and that they'd booked a tee time when we don't generally do visitor/society bookings at weekends until 2ish.

But you are quite right though - it is not a big deal - and I recognise my own instinctive feeling then to be at odds with what I believe we must do to change - but thjt's the nature of change - it's uncomfortable

As someone else said - we were very welcoming - the guys weren't blamed' at all.

I asked the question here as I questioned how I felt. My wonky thinking has been straightened out by the replies

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Agree with you Iain.

Also SILH, a booking system can be set up so that certain times are reserved for members only. It is at ours without a problem.

Agree - just that ours hasn't yet.

We start a 2month trial on 4th July of a booking system to enable members to book tee times Saturday and Sunday morning (7:30am-11:30am). Even that has caused huge ructions in the camp. Why? Because members are used to complete flexibility in turning up to play (and yes I know all the pro and con arguments). Chuck in visitors booking individual tee times and the subject gets toxic.