Golf Club loses half its members due to HS2

[Deleted member 18588]

So the time gained from the HS2 is then lost getting connections into New Street and then onwards ?

Still plenty of time yet for it to be shelved then the money being spent on something all tax payers can feel the benefit and not just businessmen in London and Brum

You really are not up to date with this, are you.

HS2 will be going on from Birmingham to Manchester (west) and Leeds (east) thereby bringing a high speed rail link to Europe to much more of the country than the existing London & South East monopoly.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You really are not up to date with this, are you.

HS2 will be going on from Birmingham to Manchester (west) and Leeds (east) thereby bringing a high speed rail link to Europe to much more of the country than the existing London & South East monopoly.

What about the West Country and Wales ?

What about the East Coast ?

What about the North East ?


HS2 is decades upon decades away let alone the expansions further into Manchester

 

[Fish]

What about the West Country and Wales ?

What about the East Coast ?

What about the North East ?


HS2 is decades upon decades away let alone the expansions further into Manchester

But it has to start somewhere, doesn't it?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But it has to start somewhere, doesn't it?

It doesn't have to start at all - the billions could be better spent on improving the current system all over the country

 

[Fish]

It doesn't have to start at all - the billions could be better spent on improving the current system all over the country

Its already been said, the current system, rails and embankments can't handle high speed so, if the HS2 becomes a fast people carrier, why can't the existing system become an efficient freight system taking more lorry's and cars off the road?

Just an idea :mmm:

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Its already been said, the current system, rails and embankments can't handle high speed so, if the HS2 becomes a fast people carrier, why can't the existing system become an efficient freight system taking more lorry's and cars off the road?

Just an idea :mmm:

The high speed takes off 12 mins - that is all 12 mins off a journey. The train itself won't actually be going that much faster - the time saved will mainly come from not stopping at stations.

And if you take lorries off the roads - imagine how many people would then be out of a job , imagine those companies that would struggle because their trucks would no longer be needed.

Create more space on the roads then more people would travel by road.

There isn't enough positives to make the HS2 both worthwhile and cost effective.

 

[delc]

I wonder if the R&A is doing any lobbying about the threat HS2 poses to many golf courses?

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Its already been said, the current system, rails and embankments can't handle high speed so, if the HS2 becomes a fast people carrier, why can't the existing system become an efficient freight system taking more lorry's and cars off the road?

Just an idea :mmm:

Not just an idea but an excellent idea. This would be far more beneficial for road transport than merely building more roads or increasing the existing motorways by adding more lanes.

 

[doublebogey7]

The high speed takes off 12 mins - that is all 12 mins off a journey. The train itself won't actually be going that much faster - the time saved will mainly come from not stopping at stations.

And if you take lorries off the roads - imagine how many people would then be out of a job , imagine those companies that would struggle because their trucks would no longer be needed.

Create more space on the roads then more people would travel by road.

There isn't enough positives to make the HS2 both worthwhile and cost effective.

But roads are an extremely inefficient way of moving both people and freight around the country. And will over the next 50 years become ever more so with increasing cost of fuel.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But roads are an extremely inefficient way of moving both people and freight around the country. And will over the next 50 years become ever more so with increasing cost of fuel.

But a very practical way of moving both freight and people

 

[SocketRocket]

The attached link has a table with the suggested travel times between centres. Most look quite impressive to me:

http://www.hs2.org.uk/phase-two/facts-figures#Journey%20times

 

[doublebogey7]

But a very practical way of moving both freight and people

And so were horse and carts!!

 

[Deleted member 18588]

The high speed takes off 12 mins - that is all 12 mins off a journey. The train itself won't actually be going that much faster - the time saved will mainly come from not stopping at stations.

And if you take lorries off the roads - imagine how many people would then be out of a job , imagine those companies that would struggle because their trucks would no longer be needed.

Create more space on the roads then more people would travel by road.

There isn't enough positives to make the HS2 both worthwhile and cost effective.

You keep banging on about a time saving of only 12 mins for London to Birmingham but in fact the saving is 3 times that figure.

In any event the savings on time taken to travel to Europe is far more important. Your argument does not appear to be based upon any facts or on a true understanding of the project's intentions.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And so were horse and carts!!

Thankfully they invented cars and until something quicker and more practical appears - cars it will be. Because whilst petrol is expensive train fare and parking at train stations is even more expensive

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You keep banging on about a time saving of only 12 mins for London to Birmingham but in fact the saving is 3 times that figure.

In any event the savings on time taken to travel to Europe is far more important. Your argument does not appear to be based upon any facts or on a true understanding of the project's intentions.

My argument is based on the HS2 is being paid for by British taxpayers but won't benefit all the British tax payers - it benefits businessmen in London and Brum - there are thousands and thousands of businesses up and down the country that will not see the benefit because this train just speeds right past them all.

That's not even talking about the effects it will have on peoples lives up and down the train line - the farmers whose land is getting cut in two but people in Birmingham ( like yourself it appears ) and London won't give a **** about the lives it will affect or the businesses that suffer.

Currently the country is struggling financially - job losses on a daily basis , business closing down , government cut backs on everything yet they want to spent billions to link London and Birmingham a bit quicker. What's worse is people know this is coming so businesses will be charged fortunes to start upon those cities - but what about all the other cities - what about in the West Country or up the M1 or A1 or across to Cambridge and into Norfolk and Suffolk etc.

And guess which people will be able to afford to use the HS2 - that's right the rich businessmen from those two cities.

I have seen our forces struggle with budget cuts , seen hospitals struggle with budget cuts , seen police stations close because of budget cuts and see A&E's closing with budget cuts

So you will have to excuse me if I don't jump for joy over a train line that might taxes are paying for that I can't even use because it flies right by me

 

[Deleted member 18588]

My argument is based on the HS2 is being paid for by British taxpayers but won't benefit all the British tax payers - it benefits businessmen in London and Brum - there are thousands and thousands of businesses up and down the country that will not see the benefit because this train just speeds right past them all.

That's not even talking about the effects it will have on peoples lives up and down the train line - the farmers whose land is getting cut in two but people in Birmingham ( like yourself it appears ) and London won't give a **** about the lives it will affect or the businesses that suffer.

Currently the country is struggling financially - job losses on a daily basis , business closing down , government cut backs on everything yet they want to spent billions to link London and Birmingham a bit quicker. What's worse is people know this is coming so businesses will be charged fortunes to start upon those cities - but what about all the other cities - what about in the West Country or up the M1 or A1 or across to Cambridge and into Norfolk and Suffolk etc.

And guess which people will be able to afford to use the HS2 - that's right the rich businessmen from those two cities.

I have seen our forces struggle with budget cuts , seen hospitals struggle with budget cuts , seen police stations close because of budget cuts and see A&E's closing with budget cuts

So you will have to excuse me if I don't jump for joy over a train line that might taxes are paying for that I can't even use because it flies right by me

Very emotive but as with so many of your arguments short on facts.

HS2 will be direct to Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and Nottingham/Derby which coupled with the existing London connection means that it will serve the majority of this country's major centres of population, sorry if that does not include Leighton.

No evidence to support your claims regarding the costs of starting a business in London or Birmingham.

Reliance upon road & air transport will be far more detrimental to the environment than HS2.

 

[Fish]

My argument is based on the HS2 is being paid for by British taxpayers but won't benefit all the British tax payers - it benefits businessmen in London and Brum - there are thousands and thousands of businesses up and down the country that will not see the benefit because this train just speeds right past them all.

That's not even talking about the effects it will have on peoples lives up and down the train line - the farmers whose land is getting cut in two but people in Birmingham ( like yourself it appears ) and London won't give a **** about the lives it will affect or the businesses that suffer.

Currently the country is struggling financially - job losses on a daily basis , business closing down , government cut backs on everything yet they want to spent billions to link London and Birmingham a bit quicker. What's worse is people know this is coming so businesses will be charged fortunes to start upon those cities - but what about all the other cities - what about in the West Country or up the M1 or A1 or across to Cambridge and into Norfolk and Suffolk etc.

And guess which people will be able to afford to use the HS2 - that's right the rich businessmen from those two cities.

I have seen our forces struggle with budget cuts , seen hospitals struggle with budget cuts , seen police stations close because of budget cuts and see A&E's closing with budget cuts

So you will have to excuse me if I don't jump for joy over a train line that might taxes are paying for that I can't even use because it flies right by me

That's just a rant :rant:

 

[chris661]

Yet another warning coming about keeping things on topic. Wer seem to have drifted away from the initial point regarding course losing members and are now into a debate regarding the pro's/con's of this HS2. Feel free to start another thread for it please.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Very emotive but as with so many of your arguments short on facts.

HS2 will be direct to Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and Nottingham/Derby which coupled with the existing London connection means that it will serve the majority of this country's major centres of population, sorry if that does not include Leighton.

No evidence to support your claims regarding the costs of starting a business in London or Birmingham.

Reliance upon road & air transport will be far more detrimental to the environment than HS2.

You know you are talking about stage 2 here and not stage 1 - stage 2. The current budget doesnt cover that stage.

Stage 1 is just between Brum and London

So what about the South West them ? North East ?

I noticed you didnt want to tackle the budget cuts for other areas that actual save and protect life where as this budget is all about business.

There is massive areas of the country the HS2 doesnt touch - but the major cities will be fine - lets not worry about the rest of the population.

I got an idea - the people who live in those towns and will benefit from the HS2 should pay extra taxes to pay for it - the massive businesses that will benefit should pay extra taxes to pay for it - so that my taxes can go to far more worthwhile causes like Education, Health