GM Spike Bar-Debate.

[GB72]

I think that a pretty good point has come out here that sems obvious but had not'clicked' with me. Dodger's club and many others, mine included, are worried that there are too few members in the 20-35 age group and this seems, in general, a problem across the board. Has anyone, however, actually carried out any research before cutting prices to see if this section of the market actually exists. Is there this massive group of 20-35 year olds gagging to play golf but are put off by the cost. I do not think there is. Between 18 and 22 alot of people are university now, after that people are more likley to move about with work and not want to commit to a club. Also, as stated before, people are carrying on with the more physical sports, football and rugby, or even play cricket in the summer as that is what they played at school. Unless they were junior golfers or have a group of peers that play then they are not likely to be attracted to the game at that age. And realistically, is golf club life and what it has to offer, coupled with the rules, regulations and dress codes and little interaction with the opposite sex, really what most 20-35 year olds are looking for. I am not sure that it is. I have a feeling that most in that age group who do have an interest in the game are more likely to be occasional pay and players not dedicated members. So if you cut the cost membership all that you are achieving is making less from those few in this age group than you could have done.

If there really is such an untapped market out there then I would support going out to get it for the good of the club and the revenue but I am not sure it exists. If that is the case then all clubs are doing is making less from some members and starting a price war with other local clubs who are all competing for the same age group.

 

[0]

I bet Martin Kaymer roars with left every time he hears that joke (or looks at his bank balance)

 

[Imurg]

Interesting thread here guys. Definately two distinct camps here unfortunately. There's the 'progressive camp' and the 'head in the sand camp'.

I haven't read any part of.this thread that indictes "head in sand" or doing nothing.
As you say, you have to attract youngsters to the game. Can you not also attract 30,40 and 50 somethings too?

Nobody is saying do nothing, just do something different.

 

[ScienceBoy]

If it was not for my current clubs "intermediate" catagory I would not be regular playing golf at the moment. Sure there are public courses but that is no way to play 3 times a week!

Out intermediate catagory filled all but one or two places this year, we even had enough to play a few matches vs other clubs!

It does exist, there are people who want it and it is needed!

 

[forefortheday]

I'd have no problem if they introduced it at my club.

I'm quite young at 36 (in terms of my club membership)and have managed to get a couple of mates to join but a lot of the members are well in to their 40's with a good rump 60+.

I'd have no problem playing in the same comp as someone who paid less than me due to their age.

I'm sure the average wage of the over 35's is higher than that of a 25 year old.

 

[Screwback]

I am not blowing my own trumpet here but i play off scratch and support my clubs right left and centre whether it be league matches club comps, friendlys and what not but if the clubs i play at, and dodgers club happens to be one of them, did not offer reduced membership for my age (21) i simply could not afford to play at them, i know that some may say but you are a member of 2 clubs you would just have to drop one and have one club but even then i could not afford it.

As for the every area is struggling money wise side of things thats true but this area is particularly poorly paid, the average salary in my town is 11,500 i think not a lot really is it.

If any club can get young members through the door not only is it good for the club it is good for the game.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I have no issue with doing whatever a club can to get the juniors into a club. As Dodger intimates, they are the future. However golf club membership is a lot more transigent these days. People go off to uni and don't always go back to their home town after graduation (meeting a partner, work etc) and so are likely to join a club closer to their new home if they decide to carry on playing.

My issue would be with any sort of subsidy over the age of 22-23 when studying has been done and people are out in the workplace. If they are working full-time same as me then pay the same as me.

My golf club as I've mentioned before is quite expensive (but competitive compared to its neighbours) and yet we are doing pretty well at attracting new members. They aren't the youngsters but tend to be the 30-50 bracket. It is these members I feel that we need to be keeping. They are usually settled and on a liveable salary and are less likely to switch from club to club. They are more likely to play at least once a weekend and play competitive weekend golf.

If we can get a 35 year old and keep him, we get the benefit of full subs every year and the chance they will still be a round until they retire. Once they reach that age and play more and more frequently in the week as well they are usually there for life then.

Nothing wrong with price bracketing as long as it is for a reason and doesn't then shift the onus onto older members. I'd like to see it capped at around 22-23. It gives those still studying or only just in the workplace a bit of protection fee wise. If you are earning you should be paying

 

[DCB]

Thing is Imurg, as a teenager of 18 comes out of Junior Membership, where do they go. You've already got them into the club as Juniors, why just let them go at that transition stage.

Sure people move on after Uni, but there's no such thing as a job for life nowadays so people of all ages may have to move around with their careers.

The other market that would have been viable a few yerars nback, the seniors market, is slowly going to change. Not too many folks on final salary schemes that can afford to allow retiral at 55 nowadays. Yes we've had a fair few retired gents join over the years, but they won't last as long as a 25 year old who has roots in the club.

 

[bobmac]

How many people on here played golf as a kid, then met beer and girls, left golf, did the family thing till the kids left home then gone back to golf again or else played football but are now retired through injury etc?.
I don't think there is a big section of 20-40 year olds who either want to play or can afford the time to play. They're too busy with kids and work to worry about golf.
It's the guys in their 40s/50s who clubs should be aiming for as they probably have more disposable income and time to play than a young family man/woman.
The biggest group of people I teach are beginners over 40

 

[thecraw]

Great post the artful one and I'm with you all the way.

I agree that more needs to be done to attract and retain the level of younger members. Reduced fees is the best way that I can see that will do this.

For instance, when I was a junior our junior team won the league three years running. We were paying something like £70 for the year at that stage. Of that successful team the highest handicap was 5 and from that team of 8 only three of us turned senior. Why? The fees suddenly jumped up to over £500. I was lucky that the old man paid it otherwise I would have drifted out of the game at 18!
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The intermediate membership 18-21 or in some cases below 30 was never even considered then. It was cough up or bye bye and I wonder how many young men and women up and down the length and breadth of Britain were forced out, sorry priced out of the game at this time???

I think its great that clubs now offer memberships to bridge the gap between junior and senior golf. Its the way to retain the lifeblood of the golf club.

That said I'm now 35 with two young kids and moneys tighter that a camels dung hole in a sand storm!!!!

 

[USER1999]

I'm with Bobmac on this, the future of the club market is forty somethings, not 20 year olds. Sorry, that's the way the market is. We have a strong junior section, good subsidies up to 25, but they all leave after. How long can you continue subsidising it. We have more new members starting aged 40 plus. They are the future of golf.

 

[Evesdad]

What about giving juniors who get older a reduced rate over the next few years to help adjust to the high rates. May work or they may just spend it on booze like I did! I don't think that there is a massive Market for under 30's as most people play golf in latter years, also I had more cash ten years ago than I do now at 34, so does that mean I get a reduction no. I've got £780 fees to pay this month! Yes golf needs new blood but does it matter if they start in their twenties or thirties? I have friends who won't join just yet as they still play football or rugby etc every weekend. In the next couple of years they will stop playing other sports and join, I know this is a fact for the people I know. So to summarise I think players who have been juniors and come through the ranks should be helped to continue their memberships, others I'm afraid should pay the same as the rest of us.

 

[Screwback]

I'm with Bobmac on this, the future of the club market is forty somethings, not 20 year olds. Sorry, that's the way the market is. We have a strong junior section, good subsidies up to 25, but they all leave after. How long can you continue subsidising it. We have more new members starting aged 40 plus. They are the future of golf.

Do you not think the reason it is a forty somethings market is because no one younger can afford it to be their market???

 

[SammmeBee]

I'm with Bobmac on this, the future of the club market is forty somethings, not 20 year olds. Sorry, that's the way the market is. We have a strong junior section, good subsidies up to 25, but they all leave after. How long can you continue subsidising it. We have more new members starting aged 40 plus. They are the future of golf.

Do you not think the reason it is a forty somethings market is because no one younger can afford it to be their market???

Says the man that gets such age related deals he can afford to be a member of more than one club....

 

[Evesdad]

I also think players in later years have more time to play, I have the pressures of work and family life, young children mean that I spend more time with them but as they get older the less I'm needed and I can hit the course more! In ten years time my eldest will be seventeen(god that's scared me!) she won't want to be hanging out with me will she!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm with Bobmac on this, the future of the club market is forty somethings, not 20 year olds. Sorry, that's the way the market is. We have a strong junior section, good subsidies up to 25, but they all leave after. How long can you continue subsidising it. We have more new members starting aged 40 plus. They are the future of golf.

Do you not think the reason it is a forty somethings market is because no one younger can afford it to be their market???

I don't think it is purely a 40 plus market. We've attracted a lot of 30-40 year olds this year. They are usually married and settled down and in regualar (not always high paid) employment. I think if you can get this slightly younger market as well then the future of any club is pretty solid. I don't think they will be as transigent as those in their 20's (moving for work, getting married etc) and whilst I accept you will lose a few along the way to starting families and so needing to cut budgets I think this age group offers a large membership opportunity

 

[percy_layer]

I think there is a market for the 20 and 30 somethings. A lot of the people i teach and speak with are in this age range and would love to join a club but can't afford it. They play a few times in the summer months but finances restrict their membership options.

As i said earlier, unless someone comes up with a better real world solution, doing something is better than doing nothing. Something needs to be done or golf clubs are going to be in real trouble when the older generation stop playing golf. There has been a decline in the number of golfers over the last 10 years and it makes sense to encourage golfers that can be members of the clubs for a few decades to come.
To say you don't agree with price structures that have been proposed or implemented is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But what other workable ideas are there? To say something else needs to be done but not put forward a realistic option doesn't help anyone.
It's not something that golf clubs can afford to think about for a few years, or in some cases even months, the effort needs to be done now.

 

[stevek1969]

I'm with Dodger on this, young guys are the life blood of any club ,the average at my club is 62 now these guys spend heehaw in the club and the shop,now the young guys spend the money in the shop and the club.

Back to the point why should they come out of being a junior then have to pay full whack its absurd they should go up in section until they reach a certain age it might 30 at my club not to sure but juniors don't go right to the full whack its immoral.At my place the old guys don't have any time for young ones because they win alot of the big comps they always complain,and recently i had an arguement with old guy complaining about the money they pay and the amount of golf the get for it.

IMO there should be different rates for different age groups.

 

[percy_layer]

I'm with Bobmac on this, the future of the club market is forty somethings, not 20 year olds. Sorry, that's the way the market is. We have a strong junior section, good subsidies up to 25, but they all leave after. How long can you continue subsidising it. We have more new members starting aged 40 plus. They are the future of golf.

Do you not think the reason it is a forty somethings market is because no one younger can afford it to be their market???

Says the man that gets such age related deals he can afford to be a member of more than one club....

And because both those clubs have a workable price structure, both clubs may find they have this same member for many years to come...........

 

[Screwback]

I'm with Bobmac on this, the future of the club market is forty somethings, not 20 year olds. Sorry, that's the way the market is. We have a strong junior section, good subsidies up to 25, but they all leave after. How long can you continue subsidising it. We have more new members starting aged 40 plus. They are the future of golf.

Do you not think the reason it is a forty somethings market is because no one younger can afford it to be their market???

Says the man that gets such age related deals he can afford to be a member of more than one club....

as i said in my first post i am extremely fortunate to be able to get such deals but take them away and i cant afford to play golf....