Getting rid of yellow penalty areas

[backwoodsman]

Why’s that - it’s not like you can go sideways to take relief?!

Take any ditch a reasonable from hole. Ball crosses ditch directly in line with hole, bounces, and rolls back in. There is easily a point on green side of the ditch that is within 2Cl of point of entry and not nearer the hole. The more to the side of the fairway that the point of entry is, the more easily there will be a drop on green side of the ditch. Just get your compasses out & do the geometry.

 

[rulefan]

Take any ditch a reasonable from hole. Ball crosses ditch directly in line with hole, bounces, and rolls back in. There is easily a point on green side of the ditch that is within 2Cl of point of entry and not nearer the hole. The more to the side of the fairway that the point of entry is, the more easily there will be a drop on green side of the ditch. Just get your compasses out & do the geometry.

Very unlikely if the ditch has a slight convex curve when viewed from the tee.

 

[Homer]

Take any ditch a reasonable from hole. Ball crosses ditch directly in line with hole, bounces, and rolls back in. There is easily a point on green side of the ditch that is within 2Cl of point of entry and not nearer the hole. The more to the side of the fairway that the point of entry is, the more easily there will be a drop on green side of the ditch. Just get your compasses out & do the geometry.

And if the ditch is the standard 3ft wide then they will gain all of 2 yards!

 

[rulefan]

And if the ditch is the standard 3ft wide then they will gain all of 2 yards!

And probably have one foot in the water.

 

[backwoodsman]

Very unlikely if the ditch has a slight convex curve when viewed from the tee.

And absolutely guaranteed if the curve is concave.

Yes, of course there will be exceptions but the principle remains. Whether one agrees it is significant is entirely subjective and is why it needs to be up to the individual course to make its own decisions.

 

[duncan mackie]

And it’s also says GUR relief is mandatory - any ideas why?

You should have heard me laughing when I saw that bit....fortunately my opinion of their choice of LRs isn't of interest to them 🤔

 

[duncan mackie]

Our greenkeeping staff are in the process of converting all our yellow penalty areas to red but have run out of red posts.

Can the committee implement a local rule telling players to consider all penalty areas as red even if still physically marked as yellow?

Yes

 

[duncan mackie]

Young Trees - are no play zones

How is the limit of the zone defined?

By reference to interference....

"If a player's ball lies anywhere on the course other than in a penalty area and it lies on or touches such a tree or such a tree
interferes with the player's stance or area of intended swing, the player must take relief under Rule 16.1f."

 

[rulefan]

Thanks. Missed that

 

[Canfordhacker]

Why’s that - it’s not like you can go sideways to take relief?!

The ditches on 7 are a good example. They are about 8 feet wide and 6 feet deep, and they are at angles, so there will easily be a lateral point of relief on the green side. The ditches are there to make you think, they are a big part of the strategy of the hole. And it's very easy to stand behind the first one thinking "don't chunk it in there".

 

[Homer]

The ditches on 7 are a good example. They are about 8 feet wide and 6 feet deep, and they are at angles, so there will easily be a lateral point of relief on the green side. The ditches are there to make you think, they are a big part of the strategy of the hole. And it's very easy to stand behind the first one thinking "don't chunk it in there".

You will still have to get over them whatever colour it is. There is no opposite margin and balls rarely roll backwards once over the penalty area so red makes easier and more straightforward.

 

[Canfordhacker]

But I don’t think the hole is designed to hit it over it on 13, otherwise it would come out further left and be a proper SI 1 (but better as a longer par 5 if that was the case).

13 is stroke 5. The second shot is usually a long shot, and the combination of water and stroke index mean many lay up, but the reward is there. If your tee shot is on right half of fairway you will absolutely have to carry the water for a lot of pin positions. As a red PAthere's a good chance you will be able to gain an advantage that the design wasn't set up to offer.

 

[Canfordhacker]

There is also water behind 1, 2, and 4 which were yellow hazards previously. thin one through and you were left with a tricky short chip over water. Now you will go sideways and have a much easier shot.

 

[Homer]

13 is stroke 5. The second shot is usually a long shot, and the combination of water and stroke index mean many lay up, but the reward is there. If your tee shot is on right half of fairway you will absolutely have to carry the water for a lot of pin positions. As a red PAthere's a good chance you will be able to gain an advantage that the design wasn't set up to offer.

How do you gain an advantage from hitting it in the water?

 

[IanM]

Sales of red paint have gone up in Newport area too!!

 

[Canfordhacker]

How do you gain an advantage from hitting it in the water?

Yes, very good. The advantage is one that you get after it has gone in the hazard by the redesignation from yellow to red, not from hitting it in the water.

 

[Homer]

Yes, very good. The advantage is one that you get after it has gone in the hazard by the redesignation from yellow to red, not from hitting it in the water.

And the advantage under the new Rules is now what precisely?

 

[rulefan]

And the advantage under the new Rules is now what precisely?

Presumably the lateral drop as opposed to BOL or S&D

 

[Canfordhacker]

And the advantage under the new Rules is now what precisely?

The new rules have made the club reconsider things, and they have made a blanket decision to reclassify what were yellow hazards as red penalty areas, which was the point of the thread to start with.

 

[rulefan]

Regardless of my pointing out that the RBs suggest marking all as red, the committee decided that two ponds would significantly change the playing aspect of the holes if lateral relief was available. I must say they considered it very carefully.