generally hacked off (golf course related)

[USER1999]

Ok, so it’s winter, and the course needs to be protected, I accept that. So when I got home on Friday after a week away, and it was drizzling, I kind of figured the course would be closed. However, by the time I got there, the drizzle has stopped, and the course was open. There were however 4 temporary greens.

So today (Saturday), when I woke up I could hear the rain banging on my bay window roof. Hmm, thinks I, not sure it will be worth getting up this morning. However, I had promised a mate that I would run the swindle for him this morning, so I leapt out of bed, exhibiting huge enthusiasm, and went off thinking an egg and bacon toasty would be about it.

But no, arriving at the club, the course is open, but a trolley ban has been imposed overnight. Odd, as when I left on Friday it as dark, and it was still dark on Saturday morning, so how has anyone reviewed the drainage in the dark.

Breakfast, and do the draw, as some still wanted to go out. By the time the draw is done, amazingly the trolley ban has been rescinded. Bit of a pain for the 3 groups who have already gone off the first, as I am sure most would have had trolleys if allowed. So it appears we have a nocturnal trolley ban, and in the hours of daylight, trolleys are allowed. Must be some health and safety thing regarding not having head lights or something.

Anyway we tee off, facing 18 temporary greens, but hey it is winter golf, and the same for every one. Apart from one small thing. After my group, first out (out of 5 groups in our swindle) plays 12 holes, the pro goes past in a buggy (no trolleys, but buggies ok, obvious really), and he is putting the greens back on. All of them.

This makes our swindle a nonsense, as we all played different numbers of each green. Not important, but annoying. Also, the 4 temps from yesterday are now on greens, although they cannot have drained anymore than yesterday, and should be worse. For the 6 greens I played into, 4 off them should not have been on.

So in two hours, we have gone from trolley ban, 18 temps, to 18 greens and trolleys.

Now, why?

Could it be that the committee are playing a comp with the Juniors in the late morning, prior to some dinner and speeches?

Am I being a bit cynical?

To me, we are either protecting the course, or we are not. To put the greens on today undoes all the protection that we have given them over the last 2 months, when they have hardly ever been on. Is the course run solely for the committee, or are they merely custodians of the course for all the members?

Mind you, the Juniors rank higher than the members too, as I have been there before when they have opened a closed course to play a Junior medal, and refused to let me and a mate to go off the 10th, as the course is closed.

As an aside, I note that they have finally cut down all the fir trees between the 10th and the 8th. This too is a disgrace. It leaves the course really open, and looks terrible. Apparently, they were out of character. Rubbish, Having a golf course in 1000 year old woods is out of character, are they going to get rid of that too. It is ok though, as they have planted some oaks to replace them. Pity that none of the current membership will be alive to see them reach maturity.

A long post, but I got home totally disgusted by today, as were a lot of others. I love the course, but the management leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[ricardodaintino]

Hi Murph,

No worries about the long post, this forum is a great outlet for all things golf. If, like me, you come home and try to explain the above to a wife who greets it with a shrug you need someone to tell!

I'm not a member at a club but have read enogh threads to know that some committes are a law unto themeselfs.

If you love the club I guess you have to take a deep breath and count to 10, if this is the straw that breaks the camels back maybe a polite word with someone on the committee could be in order!

 

[markwarne]

You have my sympathy Murph. Where do you play?

We were fortunate enough to have all open today (but then our greens have never been shut over winter, even though they should have been ). We had an electric trolley ban, but push / pull trollies were allowed.

I guess its horses for courses. The proof of the effect of playing on frost frozen greens will soon be seen I would imagine.

There's always next week

 

[birdieman]

Have played in a medal where the morning groups played different flags than the afternoon group - unbelievable but true! Competition void of course.

As for the trees, there is still a a ridiculous notion that if trees are non native then they shouldn't be here - tell that to the birds, animals and beasties that live on those trees. If they were genuinely unsightly then fair enough but it sounds like they weren't. I would have phased out the firs gradually, remove one or two at a time, replant with oak but do it over a decade or two so it's not so obvious.

It sounds terrible to say but committees and democracies don't work that well at golf clubs. Sometimes better if one dictator heed-honcho makes the decisions so that the buck stops with him/her instead of no-one taking responsibility as is often the case with committees and the type of nonsense Murph has described above.

If it continues perhaps join another club?

 

[viscount17]

We had a line of pines that coincidentally marked an oob. they are all gone now, as are several hedgerows and a lot of bushes. this has really opened up the course on some areas and the cynics among the members believe this is to get more p&p and societies round in a shorter time.

to be fair, there has also been a lot (and I mean a lot) of trees planted, some of which will when established narrow quite a few fairways, screen others and make more risk of some high risk routes. I hope I'm still around to see some of it.

as for taking out all the pines in one go, the greenskeeper did say they only had a couple of years life left - didn't know trees had sell-by dates.

 

[USER1999]

Perhaps I need to kill the committee members, one by one, so no one really notices, until they have all been repaced by robots, who will spend their time on the board doing what they are elected to do.

Beer is a great fixer of all things, tempers included.

I can't say where I play, as a post such as this would be viewed as bringing the club into disrepute, which would lead to a 3 month suspension if it ever came to light.

 

[viscount17]

Perhaps I need to kill the committee members, one by one, so no one really notices, until they have all been repaced by robots, who will spend their time on the board doing what they are elected to do.

they may make great compost for the new trees

 

[medwayjon]

Chris, you have my sympathy.

I remember saying to you last saturday that a club I know have been carrying and on temps since the beginning of december. Unless of course its ladies day, a ladies medal or a mixed match then the greens are miraculously fit for play all of a sudden.

Thank god for access to the links.

 

[greensman]

Ok my blood is boiling. However I am going to take a deep breath count to 10.

Firstly, you sound rather naïve, trees do have a sell by date, trees also need to be managed, this includes thinning and even clear felling. There is a massive difference between some fir trees & a1000 year old wood!!!! Your green keeper & committee will have had permission & advice from the forestry commission, if it was wrong they would NOT give permission. that’s the law. I am not going to go in to the in’s and out’s of tree management but rest assured there are people who know what they are doing.

I will say this… grass does not grow well in the shade! Grass will not be healthy in between a wood! And if you read the thread on chemical restrictions we are going rely more on our natural resources.

I am removing over 1000 trees over the next 5 years… and its ALL for the right reasons, including wildlife!!!!

As for the greens, it sounds to me that your club are doing everything to keep the course fully open and on full greens. However recently has been an horrendous time, this has been created by the frost mostly. On top of that we then get rain.

Have patience and try to realise that your greenkeeper is not deliberately annoying you. You may not like some things but there is a reason…. There always is.

 

[USER1999]

Hi Greenkeeper,

Whilst I respect your views and experience on course management, with repect, you are not familiar with the club I belong to. The decision to remove these particular trees was a decision made by the committee, not the green keeper, and whilst it may aid the grass growth, the area in the shade of these trees is not really in play. The trees performed a useful task of shielding players on the 8th from tee shots sliced off the 10th. A function which will not be performed by saplings.

As to the greens, my anger was not that they weren't on, but that they were put on, after any greens staff had already gone home, leaving them on temps. It was a decision made by the general manager, who although a 2 h/cap golfer, is not a greenkeeper. What is the point in having greens staff, if they are over ruled the moment they are not there.

There are areas of my course which have trees scheduled for removal, to ensure the tees get more light, and this is for sound reasons, which I can understand. There has been no reasons stated by the cub for the removal of these fir trees, other than they are out of character. This, to me is vandalism.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Murph,

My overriding thought having read all of this is for you to get all of this down in writing (after taking a few days out to think about the wording) and put it in front of the committee officially. If they don't give you a satisfactory answer, you should then have grounds to raise it further normally through an extraordinary general meeting.

I have found in the past that most committees will try and bluster you or will only give basic and non-commital answers until faced with the prospect of having their poor club management opened up for general dissection by the members. You tend to find that green staff suddenly get the right to close the course and make decisions on what needs doing regarding trees etc. It won't last but you may get a few months grace before old habits creep back. Other than that you need to get a vote of no confidence going

 

[USER1999]

My general problem with committees is the 'what can we change' mentality. Not the 'how can we do what the club needs just a little better than it has been done before'. The all want some landmark thing that they can say 'when I was on the committee, we did this'. As opposed to keeping the course in good condition, running a sound business, and putting some cash in the bank for a rainy day.

Oh, the GM is an ass, who is only interested in looking good to the committee, whilst not having worked out that people on them change.

I would write to them, but I am sure that they think they are doing the right thing. Last year there was a petition to not change a particular feature of the course. 150 people signed it, and the committee still want to change it, as they are the 12 people who count.

As I said, I love the club, course, members, etc, but I hate the politics involved.

 

[Tommo21]

Reading through this, one thing sticks out. How do we go on a daily basis from temporary greens to normal ones while trying to please everyone. It can only be done through the day at some time or other and I’ve been out early in the morning on temps to then see the guys go out later on the full greens. The frost has gone or the conditions start to become good enough for the full greens. One thing, because temps are on in the morning it doesn’t mean to say they cannot go full later and it certainly doesn’t mean to say because some groups got temps in the morning that the guys later, even if conditions improve enough for full greens, should get temps just to make it fair. What needs to happen and does happen is regular assessments of the situation. So, if it’s wet a Friday, the temps are on Saturday morning and because it’s drying later then full greens are on for the afternoon guys. The opposite can happen, I’ve seen the course open in the morning to be shut in the afternoon.

I’m a member at two clubs, one they moan they should be on temps……yes it’s true. The other they moan because they’re on temps and yet they’re squelching around the course. In all the years I’ve been playing golf I would be a rich man if I had a fiver for each time I come across an expert green keeper who happen to be anything but.

 

[Herbie]

I understand murph, I cannot stand indecision at the best of times but when the chop and changing happens the way you have described its a p***er!

 

[Imurg]

Does make you wonder sometimes what's going on in the heads of some people. We all know Temps need to be there (at most clubs) to protect the greens, but when they change from Temps to Real just to play a medal on a course that is closed to others that's just madness surely?

If the course is playable for a Medal then its playable. Full Stop.

You have my sympathies Murph. I've had reverse problems. I served on the first commitee at my club and the Course manager didn't want us to have much say in things. Once a player entered a Medal on the Sunday morning (medals played sat/sun) and proceeded to win it. We said that he should be D'Qed for entering after the medal began. CM said No coz he was a life member and didn't want to upset him!!