From a slice to a tiny fade?

[Beezerk]

I'm interested in the mechanics or reasons behind hitting these shots if someone has the time to explain please.

I haven't played for around 5 weeks due to work commitments and holidays etc. So I took my 3 wood to the driving range near my hotel last night and hit 100 balls. Took a while to get into it again, the first few were complete duffers lol but I eventually got there albeit hitting some savage slices on the way.
In time I got into a bit of a rhythm and the shots got better and straighter. I then worked on releasing the club (rolling the wrists if you will) after impact as I have a tendency to "chicken wing" and for some reason the last 10 shots were all fades, maybe a 5 yard R to L movement in the air but a definite and obvious change of shot shape.

I was always under the impression club path and face angle to an extent are the cause of slices so I'm puzzled as to why this small adjustment caused them the ball to travel much better. As far as Im aware I was doing my usual swing just concentrating more on getting a better release.

Sadly I don't have a vid but fire away if you have any thoughts on the matter.

 

[Foxholer]

The 'proper release' thought probably overcomes the tendency to 'hold off' (keeping the hands slightly behind the arms). That's certainly the case for me.

It's not so much an actual 'rolling' of the wrists, but making sure the right wrist ends up on top of the left one (for rightee) during the follow through.

 

[JustOne]

Chances are you 'accidentally' changed both your path and clubface a little by applying your little 'fix'.

The closer the path and the face are aligned together AT IMPACT means the less 'shape' you get on your shots. If you're slicing less then the path and the face are 'closer together' at impact.

The direction the ball STARTS will give you an idea of where the clubface is actually pointing at impact and from that you can (sort of) determine the path.

 

[Ethan]

A slice and a fade differ by more than degree. A slice is usually associated with bad mechanics, mostly swing path, but a fade is due to good mechanics set up to produce a controllable ball flight (i.e. anti hook).

 

[the_coach]

I'm interested in the mechanics or reasons behind hitting these shots if someone has the time to explain please.

I haven't played for around 5 weeks due to work commitments and holidays etc. So I took my 3 wood to the driving range near my hotel last night and hit 100 balls. Took a while to get into it again, the first few were complete duffers lol but I eventually got there albeit hitting some savage slices on the way.
In time I got into a bit of a rhythm and the shots got better and straighter. I then worked on releasing the club (rolling the wrists if you will) after impact as I have a tendency to "chicken wing" and for some reason the last 10 shots were all fades, maybe a 5 yard R to L movement in the air but a definite and obvious change of shot shape.

I was always under the impression club path and face angle to an extent are the cause of slices so I'm puzzled as to why this small adjustment caused them the ball to travel much better. As far as Im aware I was doing my usual swing just concentrating more on getting a better release.

Sadly I don't have a vid but fire away if you have any thoughts on the matter.

All of the following only holds true with a centered strike on the club face.

To hit a true fade (fade is a shot that the starting direction always has to be a ways left of the 0º ball/target then curves back to that 0º target line at target) So the club face at address has to be looking left of the 0º target, so it's closed to that target line lets say by 3º closed to target line. {with a driver the face angle at impact is responsible for the starting direction (not end destination point) by a little over 80%, with an iron face angle at impact is responsible for the starting direction by approximately a little over 70%. {to explain exactly why this is is a little ways more complicated as it's to do with a number of factors, like the difference of AoA, dynamic loft, the direction of the inclined plane etc}

So at set-up we have our 0º ball/target line then the face angle of the club closed by 3º to that target line (so looking left, back to definition of a fade - has to always have a starting direction that's left of target). The missing part of the equation is how & what, makes the ball come back to the 0º target line. This bit is provided by the swing path, for the ball to curve back, the face angle has to be open to that swing path.

So target at 0º, club face angle 3º closed to that 0º target line, so 3º to the left in direction. We need the swing path to be more to the left of the target line than that face angle is, so the face angle though closed to the target line is a little ways open to the swing path direction. To have a small controlled curvature it's best working on, or near a ratio of 2:1 (swing path:face angle) so our swing path here would need to be a negative (swing path direction to the left of 0º) so -6º. So to produce that swing path angle at set-up our alignments have to be more in line with that 6º left angle from the 0º target line, so to target line you're open at address, to what extent depends have good the swing motion is in the end, you find this out through practice.

{To have a ways controlled curvature whether fade or draw, so the curvature is a ways more manageable so say around 15 - 20 feet of curvature, we need to keep both the face angle & swing path numbers small, so we can still use our normal well sequenced good swing motion we don't do anything at all different in the swing motion itself to be able to hit, near straight, fade or draw balls to target}

º Target ___________________0º target line__________________ . \ (. =ball \ =club face) straight line from face to face aimpoint 3º


º (X) club face aimed at this point 3º left of target so closed to target line.


º (Y) swing path direction to this point 6º left of target. if you drew straight lines to points X & Y from \ the club face. that would represent the differing angles at set up.


[video=youtube_share;516tSNfIBDs]http://youtu.be/516tSNfIBDs[/video]


Folks chicken wing issues caused by in general an over steep in to out arm swing with a shoulder tilt (rather than turn) so at top of backswing the left shoulder has moved downwards but hasn't turned past the sternum, the body's center so still left of center rather than having turned to be over the right thigh.

{Often occurs in folks who have very tense forearms at address so tend to really squeeze hard on the handle with the hands because they are trying to hit the ball & generate speed with an arm swing alone}

So on the downswing the shoulders hands & arms move outwards straight away towards the ball target line, the body cannot rotate properly so the body is tilting back left shoulder going up right shoulder going down after going out.
This makes it predominantly an 'arm swing' no real connection to the body as it can't because it's tilting not turning so before impact the body has to stop, as there's no ways it can carry on, the arms swinging steeply down too cause the left arm to chicken wing, partly because the player senses they have to pull the club upwards or it will stick into the ground before the clubhead gets to the ball, but also partly because the body having stopped leaves nowheres for the arms to swing to through impact, so if there is a higher end/finish to the swing it's kind of a tagged on after thought after the ball has been hit.

 

[Beezerk]

Wow excellent answer, must have taken an age to write lol.
I'll try and digest it properly later once my brain has unscrambled itself