Flooded Bunkers - Help Needed Please !

[mikejohnchapman]

We struggle with flooded bunkers on our course and with over 80, trying to get them pumped out for a competition is not practical.

The course management will not designate them as GUR - don't go there!

I have suggested to the committee that as they control the specific competition they can set a local rule taking upto 50% out of play without making it a non-qualifying competion under CONGU rules. Trouble is I can't find the confirmation of this on the CONGU website. Could someone please tell me where it is?

Also I expect relief is that of Abnormal Ground Conditions - ie NPR not straight back in line. Again struggling to find the correct wording.

Any help really appreciated

 

[Deleted member 16999]

https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/drop-from-a-flooded-bunker-unfair-rule.62622/

This old thread discuss’s CONGU advice, not sure if still relevant though.

 

[Old Skier]

Surley it's not up to the management to deem how a comp is run, surley if the comps committee want to deem bunkers X,y,z GUR due to their condition it's an option they should use.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Have a look at page 105 of CONGU Manual, I know it doesn’t state flooded bunkers, but if a flooded bunker is marked GUR then it possibly fits the explanation on that page.

 

[jim8flog]

If you want the competition to remain qualifying then you cannot have a 'blanket' statement such as 'All bunkers are GUR' you have to specify which bunkers are GUR.

It is in the rules and not the CONGU manual

33-8/27
Local Rule Providing Relief Without Penalty from Bunker Filled with Casual Water

Q.May a Committee make a Local Rule allowing a player to drop out of any bunker filled with casual water, without penalty, contrary to Rule 25-1b(ii)?

A.No. The Committee may not make a Local Rule providing generally that flooded bunkers are ground under repair through the green, as such a Local Rule waives a penalty imposed by the Rules of Golf, contrary to Rule 33-8b.

There is more to this if you want to read it.

 

[Colin L]

The 2019 Rules continue this provision. You will be able to make flooded bunkers GUR but only on a "case by case basis". Committee Procedures 8-F16

 

[rulefan]

I have suggested to the committee that as they control the specific competition they can set a local rule taking upto 50% out of play without making it a non-qualifying competion under CONGU rules. Trouble is I can't find the confirmation of this on the CONGU website. Could someone please tell me where it is?

50% is not specifically a CONGU ruling. They have let the decision to the national unions. England Golf has decided that over 50% out of play makes it a non qualifier but haven't published it as far as I can tell. I don't know what the other unions have said and am not sure if Colin ever got a reply from the SGU.

However, the good(ish) news is that relief for an unplayable ball in a bunker will, from 2019, include an option to take relief outside the bunker 'Back on the Line' (ie the flagline) but with a 2 stroke penalty.

 

[rulefan]

The river adjacent to my course breaks over the flood barrier most years. We have a standing local rule which specifies that small blue flags indicate which individual bunkers are deemed fully GUR. These are adjusted by the greenstaff as conditions change.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Surley it's not up to the management to deem how a comp is run, surley if the comps committee want to deem bunkers X,y,z GUR due to their condition it's an option they should use.

Absolutely - hence trying to get the wording right fr the competition committee to use.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

The 2019 Rules continue this provision. You will be able to make flooded bunkers GUR but only on a "case by case basis". Committee Procedures 8-F16

Agreed - there will be a list of the ones which always flood.

 

[duncan mackie]

50% is not specifically a CONGU ruling. They have let the decision to the national unions. England Golf has decided that over 50% out of play makes it a non qualifier but haven't published it as far as I can tell. I don't know what the other unions have said and am not sure if Colin ever got a reply from the SGU.

However, the good(ish) news is that relief for an unplayable ball in a bunker will, from 2019, include an option to take relief outside the bunker 'Back on the Line' (ie the flagline) but with a 2 stroke penalty.

That latter paragraph is a pretty large red herring surely?

In discussing the situation with regard to AGC (ACC) the option to take relief outside the bunker remains available at the same one shot penalty.

Yes, you have an extra option for unplayable - but AGC isn't the same (as I know you know!)

 

[rulefan]

That latter paragraph is a pretty large red herring surely?

Yes. A pretty dull response really.

 

[Tashyboy]

If you want the competition to remain qualifying then you cannot have a 'blanket' statement such as 'All bunkers are GUR' you have to specify which bunkers are GUR.

It is in the rules and not the CONGU manual

33-8/27
Local Rule Providing Relief Without Penalty from Bunker Filled with Casual Water

Q.May a Committee make a Local Rule allowing a player to drop out of any bunker filled with casual water, without penalty, contrary to Rule 25-1b(ii)?

A.No. The Committee may not make a Local Rule providing generally that flooded bunkers are ground under repair through the green, as such a Local Rule waives a penalty imposed by the Rules of Golf, contrary to Rule 33-8b.

There is more to this if you want to read it.

Played the other week and was told all bunkers are GUR. Thought fair enough. Played two days later and a PP put his ball in a fairway bunker that was immaculate. Proceeded to take the ball out of said bunker thinking it is still GUR and smashed it onto the green. He came off with two points. Next hole I knobbed my third into a green side bunker. I walked up to the bunker with the intentions of dropping said ball. He then said" I think we should ring the clubhouse and see if the bunkers are all GUR". Eventually we were informed no there not. The ones that are are highlighted are GUR. Now don't get me wrong, I came off with a point but I thought, "why didn't you ring the clubhouse when you were actually in the bunker with your first drive". Seems I wasn't the only one that thought that. Coz on our fifth he said "ave dropped a clanger". A PP said "what you on about". He said I should of rung the clubhouse when I was in the bunker, not when Tash was in".