Fees going Up - Membership going down

[NervousShankaholic]

Following on from the earlier post of fees going up.
Membership of golf clubs continues to fall through out the country and fees rising to counter act this problem, when will the tipping point come when clubs will have to almagamate or close altogether. Clubs are trying hard to attract new members and people nowadays have less disposable time and cash for golf.
Is it time for the clubs to get together and stop the use of the 2 for 1 tickets which in my opinion are the main reason that more and more people are turning to casual golf.

 

[brendy]

I dont think casual golf is hurting clubs, it is the guys who can no longer afford to pay the subs and are not playing as much any more due to it.
A casual golfer will only play in the best of weather or so many days a year, a club member will play more often (VFM) and usually the subs will heavily outweigh the casual golfers input.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Casual golf is an integral part of a clubs revenue. We use to be a members only club and you could only get a game as a members guest but we've seen the necessity to open up the course to green fees. We are still pretty restrictive about when they can play but the opportunity is now there.

The thing with casual golfers is that they will normally pick a good day and are usually pretty good for a couple of drinks in the 19th afterwards.

 

[gregbwfc]

I fall into the "non club member,2-for-1 golfer" category,and to be honest,I think it's a case of different strokes etc.
I'm in the fortunate position at the moment to be able to make good use of a club membership if I like - and it's become much easier to join a club these days.
I just prefer trying out different tracks,simple as that.
What I have noticed after 2 years of hardly playing,this year there seems to be less people on the courses I've played full stop,casual or otherwise.
But then the local driving range is choc full whenever I go.

 

[GB72]

I agree that casual players are not at fault here though I would agree that it would be a bit hard on members who pay full whack to play once or twice a week when others can play at the same time for less on a 2 fore 1 voucher. Not an issue at my club, however, as we do not take them.

I still think that the issue is inflexibility in these hard times. A bit of creativity in thinking is needed to retain members, attract new ones at also maximise the amount that each member spends at the club. How many clubs have a queue on the first tee at the busy times? How many have put in place a system to allow those people to wait their turn in the club house where they may buy a coffee or some breakfast. My club is at least trialing a ball chute on Sundays to see how this helps. How many people have pro shops that are totally inflexible on price. Mine is. There are no discounts, nothing. Now I would love to support the pro shop and spend a bit more in there but I cannot afford an extra £10-£20 on a pair of shoes or to pay full RRP on clubs. Any clubs actually spending to get more funds in. How many committees have any marketing expertise etc or the necessary business experience to steer the club in the right direction in hard times. Perhaps hiring an experienced professional would be money well spent. Are everyone's club officials taking their free membership every year. Again, if others are being asked to help out to keep the club going then perhaps agreeing to take a free year of membership in more stable times would help.

What about membership. A bit of a contentious point but take the difference in 5 and 7 day membership. If people only want to play on 5 days of the week they get a vastly reduced fee. If someone can only play on one or two days they have to pay full whack. Now there are 2 groups of people who only want to play on limited days but 1 group has to pay for the days they do not want to use the course whereas the other does not. What about a 5 day, 7 day and in the middle price wise a weekend membership

Just a few points here, some that I have made before. I just get the impression that too many clubs but up the sign for new members and expect people to stroll through the door with open walletts or for existing members to keep paying with no benefit.

 

[Gubog]

Casual golfers are a problem at our club that we are 100% moving this year, its that the course is unmarshalled at weekends & the amount of people using it without paying is getting silly, people have confronted the offenders but usually get an F off, take last Saturday me & my daughter went down at 3pm as its always dead, not today loads on the course in jeans & allsorts & not one a member, reported it, but I doubt much will happen as nobody wants to marshall the course.

 

[Oddsocks]

More flexible membership packages are needed in my opinion. If a player can only play at weekends what use is a 7 day membership, this is just one example but there could be so many more flexible packages

Weekday only
Weekend only
Full 7 days
Limited monthly rounds( ie 4 rounds , 8 rounds etc)

The Market place in all sectors of recreational sports is cut throut because disposable income is at a low, club eitherneed to offer flexible packages or more golfers will become " non club member" golfers.

This is the exact reason It is non viable for me to join a club at the moment, I can't play weekdays, but a full 7 day membership is pointless as I would only benefit from 2 of them days, that coupled with the fact that alot of mates like to play different courses means I would in reality play a home course 3 times a month.

 

[medwayjon]

I really like the idea of weekend only membership.

Would work very well indeed for many people.

 

[ADB]

Played Hemsted Forest in Kent a few weeks back and they have a really interesting membership deal. Basically, you buy credits and trade them in for games - weekends peak season more credits, weekdays off-season less credits. You can still enter competitions, get a handicap and credits can be topped up or carried over year to year.

I thought it was very attractive as with 2 young kids cannot afford (time or money!) to join a club at circa £1k per annum. Packages here start at £199.

I think this could really work and if the course was nearer to me would have been a very viable option for me.

have a look

Hemsted Forest

 

[drawboy]

I really like the idea of weekend only membership.

Would work very well indeed for many people.

Whilst I do like the idea of weekend only membership, what I cannot understand is 5 day membership being cheaper than 7. The older guys who usually take up 5 day membership get the same facilities,lockers,clubhouse,club comps and the like and get to play every day if they want to during the week yet pay less. If you work and enjoy golf this means that not only do you get just 2 days to play you have to pay top whack for the priviledge. Doesn't seem fair some how.

 

[RGDave]

I really like the idea of weekend only membership.

Would work very well indeed for many people.

I suggested this on a thread a week ago. As long as it was priced right, it could work.

I don't personally think 2 for 1 and other schemes have anything to answer for. I'm a member of a club and visit other course on 2 for 1 that I simply wouldn't play at full price.
I admit that some types of clubs might be losing out, but surely it's up to them to decide to be in or out of the scheme.

The whole problem is a catch 22. Like the M6 Toll road that I avoided today.

The M6 Toll company keep pushing up the prices. Less and less private motorists are using it......go figure.

If it was £2-3 I'd use it.....probably 30 times a year (£60-90), but at £5, I can't be doing with it and will sit for 10 extra minutes around junction 10/9/8.....(£0)

 

[Toby_LeRhone]

I think weekend membership might better reflect the conditions. More and more people, like me, commute during the week to a place of work that is too distant to make use of a local GC on week days. I would like to play during the week (long lunches, afternoons etc) and at weekends but have been unable to find a membership scheme to support this. Instead I pay and play. Its a shame because I have the money for membership but would resent the value for money of infrequent play.

On a seperate note, has it occured to anyone that, given sufficient capacity for increased membership, the way to raise income might be to dramatically reduce fees rather than increase them?

 

[SharkAttack]

Is this not a case of golf becoming to popular to quickly?

Over the last decade or so many golf clubs have increased there fee's thinking this day would never come. Where a golf club had basic food and cheap drink, now they have a chef and pub price drink. These extra's have to be paid for, therefor higher fee's and as not as many people stay after a round due to the higher prices you enter a viscious circle. Clubs will just have to cut their cloth to suit there new income from membership.

For those who played golf 15-20 years ago, I have a question. How many extra paid staff is there at your club? Courses seem to have as many green staff as they had back then, but are in no better condition and the green staff have equipment that lets them do the work in 1/3 of the time. Bars had a steward and a cook/wife working in the kitchen, now there are waitress' as well.

You get the picture I am painting, clubs have tried to move up a level and are now competing with local pubs but are not as easily accessible due to their location and restriction on who can use them. I think lots of us would be happy to have a course in good condition and a more basic clubhouse and facilities at a more reasonable price.

Shark

 

[GB72]

I agree with alot of what you say Shark. We have a re-fitted interior in our club house that has killed the old atmosphere and makes it look like a travel lodge bar. There is no spike bar so no quick coffee before heading out and no quick drink afterwards and, most significantly, the club is on the A1. Everybody has to drive so in theory nobody can ever have more than 1 pint and stay comfortably under the limit. Does that location warrant a big, re-quipped bar, I do not think so. We have a steward, his wife and then one or two waitresses that never have to bring out more than one or two meals every hour. A very busy and popular pub/restaurant near me operates with the same levels of staff.

We have a tabled area for sit down meals that I have never seen anyone in and a full size snooker table in its own room that seems to get little use as well.

I look at all of that expense and think 'why'.

 

[brendy]

I understand what you are saying re the bar getting tarted up etc. But cliquey old clubhouses arnt going to get new members through the doors. Our clubhouse is big enough but looks very dated inside and could do with a revamp, Id prefer a clean new interior than a resurfaced carpark etc though.

 

[SharkAttack]

I understand what you are saying re the bar getting tarted up etc. But cliquey old clubhouses arnt going to get new members through the doors. Our clubhouse is big enough but looks very dated inside and could do with a revamp, Id prefer a clean new interior than a resurfaced carpark etc though.

I would join a club with a course in great condition and an okay clubhouse but never a great clubhouse and an okay course. You can forgive a club lots if you have just walked off a course you would love to play again, let's face it you would pay again to play the course but not just to eat there. At the end of the day, golf is the reason we are on here.

Shark

 

[brendy]

Shark I agree but as I said, Id rather see non essential cutbacks to make the clubhouse inviting too. It is a profit making part of the club too remember. Im not sure how common it is in Eng/Sco/Wales etc but we get social members here as well as playing members so a crap interior will say sod off to any potential new non playing members.
Im not daft, I dont mind folks using "my" course while I am not there, nor using "my" bar etc. If it helps keep my subs down, I really dont care.

 

[SharkAttack]

Brendy

You are right, especially if you have social members. I just think clubs should be looking at cutting back and getting the club back on a more sensible budget. Some have just stretched themselves to far and are now finding it hard to attract new members and keep old ones, as they are just to expensive. Lowering costs right across the whole scale would bring in new members and have them spending in the clubhouse as well.

Shark

 

[brendy]

Big time shark. A club has got to cover all bases and be all things to all people. Course layout, condition, practice facilities, attention to detail, friendly members, polite knowledgable staff, decent pro and well stocked shop, decent bar and lounge, good food and never get to leave with the impression any of it was done on the cheap.
Easy peasy, for any of those reasons above, Don't council members have it easy?!

 

[19th]

I remember playing in a comp in Royal Ashdown Forest GC circa 23 years ago and at dinner, on the first evening, the Captain in his welcome speech explained that we would have noticed the club had spent money on the course rather than on the clubhouse.

He felt that when the clubhouse was very good but the course neglected it reminded him of the golfing maxim "A booming drive matterith not if you f***ith up the second shot"

I think we all understood where the club priorities lay!